From: stlatos
Message: 57475
Date: 2008-04-16
> ----- Original Message -----discussing?
> From: "stlatos" <stlatos@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 2:30 PM
> Subject: [tied] Re: Not "catching the wind " , or, what ARE we
> What do you mean by 'unexplained'? I've given lists of hundreds ofyour
> rules before. For these examples there's some metathesis, and I
> explain a few other rules, but is it necessary to say well-known
> changes like kW>k or tt>st or ks>ks., etc?
> ***
>
> Patrick:
>
> Get yourself a Yahoo! Website and put your 'rules' on line.
>
> If you think anyone is going to the archives just to understand what
> write, you are sadly mistaken.Are you sure that's what you want? Perhaps I should remind you of
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Sean Whalen <stlatos@...> wrote:
>
>
> Since I've been using Khowar in my arguments
> recently I thought I'd show the changes I believe it
> went through with examples.
>
> By the time C and V dropped out word-finally there
> probably were only two cases, nominative and oblique,
> with analogy giving -V or -Vs for nom. and -Vm for
> oblique in sng. and pl. for all common nouns.
>
> The examples below are in nom. unless indicated
> otherwise. The stem is shown since the nom. changes
> occur in both sng. and pl.
>
> dl_n^gHó- k^r._Ngó- eksk^r._Ngó-
> dl_n^gHó- k^r._Ngó- ekk^r._Ngó- 3
> dl_NgHó- k^r._Ngó- ekkr._Ngó- 4
> dl._NgHó- k^r._Ngó- ekkr._Ngó- 6
> dl._NgHó- tr._Ngó- ekkr._Ngó- 17
> dl.uNgHó- tr.uNgó- ekkr.uNgó- 20
> drúNg srúNg l.úNg 98
> drúNg srúNg suruNg l.úNg 106
>
> long, tall horn hornless
> swésor.e- bHr.áxter.e- súxel xr._ghtó-
> swésor.e- bHr.á:ter.e- súxel xr._ghtó- 2
> swésor.e- bHr.á:ter.e- súxel. xr._ghtó- 6
> swésor.e- bHr.á:ter.e- súxel. xr._ghsó- 7
> isposár isptsár brár yór óhts 103
>
> isposár isptsár isprár 104
> ispusár isptsár isprár 105
>
> little sister brother sun bear
> Below s and x have voiced allophones (not
> distinguished yet)
>
> 1 x > 0 if syllabic word-initial
> 2 x > 0 syl.-final after V with comp. lengthening
> 3 s > 0 between two stops
>
> 4 palatalized C to velar by velar
> 5 dental C to velar between obstr. and velar
>
> 6 l > l.
>
> 7 t > s and d > z after voiced velar stop
>
> 8 s > s. after velar, retroflex C, or high vowel
> 9 n > n. after velar, retroflex C, or high vowel
> 10 all dental > retro after s., z., or n.
This was difficult to prepare, with every example listed in every
form and numbered to show which number rule caused each step, exactly
as you seem to desire.
Though preliminary, most was correct. Comparing Kh dia. and dif.
dictionaries, etc., as well as a comp. with Nuristani has improved it
considerably.
Now, even though it still had problems, your questions weren't about
any mistake of mine but:
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sean Whalen" <stlatos@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 6:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] n/r (was: PIE suffix *-ro - 'similar-with')
> ***
>
> > Here's part of my earlier message about Khowar.
> > Since kk^ becomes kk (accounting for the difference
> > between "horn" and "hornless") the same change can
> > account for "I" *eghx^óm > aham in Sanskrit vs. awa in
> > Khowar instead of **ozo (Khowar g^>j>z but g>G>w
> > between V's and a>o except
[by]
> > velar (including labiovelar
> > w)). Sanskrit has x^ and xW spread their feature to a
> > touching velar before kk^ > kk unlike Khowar.
>
> ***
> Patrick:
>
> Where is any *kk^ in horn???
>
> And what is Khowar?
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sean Whalen" <stlatos@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 8:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] n/r (was: PIE suffix *-ro - 'similar-with')
> > > Where is any *kk^ in horn???
> >
> > Not horn, hornless (< eks+) in the table below my
> > explanation starting:
>
>
> ***
> Patrick:
>
> I am not a mind-reader. Where does kk^ occur?
>
> ***
>
>
> > dr_n^ghó- k^r_Ngó- eksk^r_Ngó-
> > druNg sruNg or suruNg l.uNg
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Sean Whalen <stlatos@...> wrote:
> --- Patrick Ryan <proto-language@...> wrote:
> > ***
> > Patrick:
> >
> > I am not a mind-reader. Where does kk^ occur?
>
> Here it is again below; line 3 (ekk^r._Ngó-).
>
> dl_n^gHó- k^r._Ngó- eksk^r._Ngó-
> dl_n^gHó- k^r._Ngó- ekk^r._Ngó- 3
> dl_NgHó- k^r._Ngó- ekkr._Ngó- 4
> dl._NgHó- k^r._Ngó- ekkr._Ngó- 6
> dl._NgHó- tr._Ngó- ekkr._Ngó- 17
> dl.uNgHó- tr.uNgó- ekkr.uNgó- 20
> dl.uNgHó- tr.uNgó- ekr.uNgó- 21
> dr.uNgHó- tr.uNgó- ekr.uNgó- 26
> dr.uNgHá- tr.uNgá- akr.uNgá- 27
> dr.uNgHá- r.uNgá- akr.uNgá- 32
> dr.uNgá- r.uNgá- akr.uNgá- 35
> druNgá- ruNgá- akr.uNgá- 37
> druNgá- sruNgá- akr.uNgá- 38
> druNgá- sruNgá- akr.0uNgá- 44
> druNgá- sruNgá- akHr.uNgá- 46
> druNgá- sruNgá- axr.uNgá- 48
> druNgá- sruNgá- xr.uNgá- 51
> drúNga- srúNga- xr.úNga- 58
> drúNga- srúNga- hr.úNga- 62
> drúNga- srúNga- r.úNga- 80
> drúNga srúNga r.úNga 84
> drúNg srúNg r.úNg 85
> drúNg srúNg l.úNg 98
> drúNg s(u)ruNg l.úNg 106
>
> long, tall horn hornless
Why should I modify my format at your request, solely for your
benefit, since even when I had everything in the format you seem to
desire you couldn't even understand the first change of the first
table? Even after I told you what kk^ in response to your direct
question?
Perhaps you couldn't be bothered to read even two lines, but I don't
think your problem with my work is due to a lack of explanation of
each change, as you said concerning my relatively unexplained recent
work (though more rules were given for these in the past).
Why would you look up even my first three rules if put on a website
when you wouldn't even read them from the message which I made to
respond to your question?
I've even been reprimanded for having too many rules shown and given
in notation instead of prose. Now, how can I follow the moderator's
and your preferences at the same time?