Re: Origin of *marko- Margus murg ma'rgas amurg

From: alexandru_mg3
Message: 57417
Date: 2008-04-15

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:
>
> On 2008-04-15 23:21, alexandru_mg3 wrote:
>
> > There was Piotr here that asserted that there are no trace of
animals
> > names in Baltic related to the Germanic marko
> >
> > False.
> >
> > a) Such names refers to ox, cow, dog in Baltic see
>

I.> They refer to the colour of animals, not to any particular
species.

Pure sophism Piotr : the colour is very often associated to
different species too : see Rom. 'Ursul Brun' : colour brown versus
Rom. 'Ursul Polar' : colour white

Also I can bet with you that Calul-Murg is a dsitinct type of
horse.

II.
Gmc.
> *marxa-, *marxjo:n- and Celtic *marko- refer to horses (never to
dogs,
> oxen, etc.).

In is the same in Romanian : Murgul means ONLY a HORSE
But it wasn't so in OldRomanian we can find 'oaia murg&' etc.. like
in Baltic

III.
> More specifically, they suggest a horse's function
> ('saddle-horse'), but never its colour.

No issue here: Once we have identified a specific type of horse
(having a specific colour too) ...there is no issue to go further and
to identify a specific function done by that specific horse


IV.
> Also, *m(a)rg- doesn't fit
> either Celtic or Germanic (there is no "Germanic marko-"), both of
which
> seem to derive from a form with *k (or *k^).
> Piotr



Pokorny material is the below one:

"Root / lemma: marko-

Meaning: horse

German meaning: `Pferd'

Comments: only kelt. and germ.

Material: Ir. marc, cymr. etc march `horse', gall. μάρκαν Akk. Sg.,
Marcodurum PN;

ahd. marah, ags. mearh, aisl. marr `horse' (nhd. in Mar-schall, -
stall),
fem. ahd. meriha, ags. mīere, aisl. merr, nhd. Mähre.

Maybe alb. (*mahar) magar, gomar `donkey'.

References: WP. II 235.

Page(s): 700
"

Matasovic:

"Proto-Celtic: *marko- 'horse' [Noun]

Old Irish: marc [o m] (a poetic word)

Middle Welsh: march

Middle Breton: march

Cornish: margh

Gaulish: markan [Acc. s], marcosior 'may I ride' [Verb]

Proto-Indo-European: *marko- (?)

IE cognates: OHG marah

Notes: This word is probably a "Wanderwort" of eastern origin, that
established itself in Celtic and Germanic alongside the inherited PIE
word for 'horse', *h1ek'wos (OIr. ech).

References: LEIA 19f., EIEC 274, Lambert 1994: 63, 125, 167,
Delamarre 217
"

"
Proto-Celtic: *markāko- 'horseman' [Noun]

Old Irish: marcach [o m]

Middle Welsh: marhauc [m] (OW), MW marchawc

Middle Breton: mar(c)hog gl. aequester (OBret.)

Cornish: marrec

See also: *marko- 'horse'

References: LEIA M-20, Falileyev 110
"

1. For sure Romanian/Albanian m&gar didn't belongs here

2. Celtic Marcodurum PN can be better linked Dacian Marcodava

3. Matasovic:
"Notes: This word is probably a "Wanderwort" of eastern origin,
that established itself in Celtic and Germanic alongside the
inherited PIE word for 'horse', *h1ek'wos (OIr. ech). "


4. I fully agree with what Matasovic writes above.

In addition I will say that the Balkano-Baltic zone is the source of
this horse-word *marg-/*murg- :

I. The word entered in Celtic with -k- (< *g -> this indicates a
k-language as the Celtic Source (probable a Germanic Eastern-
Dialect : this is 'my' Germanic *marko-)

II. and from Celtic the word entered next in West-Nothern-
Germanic with -k-


5. My opinion:
The similarity marg-/murg-/mark- 'horse' is too important to be
a simple coincidence

Marius