--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:
>
> On 2008-04-15 23:21, alexandru_mg3 wrote:
>
> > There was Piotr here that asserted that there are no trace of
animals
> > names in Baltic related to the Germanic marko
> >
> > False.
> >
> > a) Such names refers to ox, cow, dog in Baltic see
>
I.> They refer to the colour of animals, not to any particular
species.
Pure sophism Piotr : the colour is very often associated to
different species too : see Rom. 'Ursul Brun' : colour brown versus
Rom. 'Ursul Polar' : colour white
Also I can bet with you that Calul-Murg is a dsitinct type of
horse.
II.
Gmc.
> *marxa-, *marxjo:n- and Celtic *marko- refer to horses (never to
dogs,
> oxen, etc.).
In is the same in Romanian : Murgul means ONLY a HORSE
But it wasn't so in OldRomanian we can find 'oaia murg&' etc.. like
in Baltic
III.
> More specifically, they suggest a horse's function
> ('saddle-horse'), but never its colour.
No issue here: Once we have identified a specific type of horse
(having a specific colour too) ...there is no issue to go further and
to identify a specific function done by that specific horse
IV.
> Also, *m(a)rg- doesn't fit
> either Celtic or Germanic (there is no "Germanic marko-"), both of
which
> seem to derive from a form with *k (or *k^).
> Piotr
Pokorny material is the below one:
"Root / lemma: marko-
Meaning: horse
German meaning: `Pferd'
Comments: only kelt. and germ.
Material: Ir. marc, cymr. etc march `horse', gall. μάρκαν Akk. Sg.,
Marcodurum PN;
ahd. marah, ags. mearh, aisl. marr `horse' (nhd. in Mar-schall, -
stall),
fem. ahd. meriha, ags. mīere, aisl. merr, nhd. Mähre.
Maybe alb. (*mahar) magar, gomar `donkey'.
References: WP. II 235.
Page(s): 700
"
Matasovic:
"Proto-Celtic: *marko- 'horse' [Noun]
Old Irish: marc [o m] (a poetic word)
Middle Welsh: march
Middle Breton: march
Cornish: margh
Gaulish: markan [Acc. s], marcosior 'may I ride' [Verb]
Proto-Indo-European: *marko- (?)
IE cognates: OHG marah
Notes: This word is probably a "Wanderwort" of eastern origin, that
established itself in Celtic and Germanic alongside the inherited PIE
word for 'horse', *h1ek'wos (OIr. ech).
References: LEIA 19f., EIEC 274, Lambert 1994: 63, 125, 167,
Delamarre 217
"
"
Proto-Celtic: *markāko- 'horseman' [Noun]
Old Irish: marcach [o m]
Middle Welsh: marhauc [m] (OW), MW marchawc
Middle Breton: mar(c)hog gl. aequester (OBret.)
Cornish: marrec
See also: *marko- 'horse'
References: LEIA M-20, Falileyev 110
"
1. For sure Romanian/Albanian m&gar didn't belongs here
2. Celtic Marcodurum PN can be better linked Dacian Marcodava
3. Matasovic:
"Notes: This word is probably a "Wanderwort" of eastern origin,
that established itself in Celtic and Germanic alongside the
inherited PIE word for 'horse', *h1ek'wos (OIr. ech). "
4. I fully agree with what Matasovic writes above.
In addition I will say that the Balkano-Baltic zone is the source of
this horse-word *marg-/*murg- :
I. The word entered in Celtic with -k- (< *g -> this indicates a
k-language as the Celtic Source (probable a Germanic Eastern-
Dialect : this is 'my' Germanic *marko-)
II. and from Celtic the word entered next in West-Nothern-
Germanic with -k-
5. My opinion:
The similarity marg-/murg-/mark- 'horse' is too important to be
a simple coincidence
Marius