Re: [tied] Verner’s Law could be a result of interfamilial contact

From: jouppe
Message: 57385
Date: 2008-04-15

> --- mkelkar2003 <swatimkelkar@...> wrote:
>
> > "Wilk suggest that one of the Finno-Ugric substratum
> > features in
> > Indo-European is the generalized initial stress in
> > Germanic (as well
> > as in Latvian (see section 2.3) and in the
> > north-western Russian
> > dialects, known for a number of Finnic-substratum
> > phenomena). This
> > `main event in the split of Proto-Indo-European into
> > Prot-Germanic and
> > the other IE languages' had dramatical consequences
> > within Germanic,
> > known as Verner'law, which was later introduced into
> > Finnic in the
> > form of consonant gradation.

- - - - - - - -
The proposed sequence of events makes no sense. Initial stress could
not have had Verner's law as its "dramatical consequence", because
Verner's law was effective before the stress shifted to the first
syllable. Is it me or mr.Kelkar who is misunderstanding Wilk here? Or
is Wilk misunderstanding the events?

Jouppe
- - - - - - - -

The accent shift in Germanic is
> > probably the most
> > plausible candidate for a contact-induced change.
> > Here, Wilk follows
> > Salmons (1992) who suggests a shared Germanic-Celtic
> > accent shift
> > talking (sic) place in prehistoric north-western
> > Europe on the basis
> > of early and profound contact with a Finno-Ugric
> > language. This is
> > based on a vernally accepted view that
> > Proto-Finno-Ugric had an
> > initial stress—a view that might be disputed
> > (Viitso, 1997; 224-5).

- - - - - -
I don't know Viitsos argument here although I know him to be a very
competent scholar. I would share his doubt though:
Finnish may indeed better be interpreted as having no "stress" at
all. The Finnish phenomenon perceived as "stress" by Swedish and
English speakers involves purely a hightening of the pitch in the
first syllable but no increase in vowel quantity and very minor
increase in "emphasis". No minimal pairs may be constructed on any
aspect of "stress" since the hightened pitch is 100% conditioned and
only marks the word boundary.

In lexical borrowings from Swedish or English with the original
carrying the stress elsewhere than the first syllable Finnish
speakers don't perceive to be relocating something like "stress".
The "stress" of the original is perceived as length and remains on
the syllable of the original, as in Finnish politiikka <= Swedish
poli'tik but Finnish poliitikko <= Swedish po'litiker. Only the pitch
(word boundary marker) is relocated to the first syllable.

"Perception" is of course a subjective notion here but as I bilingual
I am entitled to use it.

The "stress" of Germanic has developed to a completely different kind
of phenomenon, with a composition of pitch, length and articulatory
emphasis combined. Thus not modelled on Finnic I would claim.

Jouppe
- - - - - -

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