Re: Hachmann versus Kossack?

From: tgpedersen
Message: 57230
Date: 2008-04-13

--- In, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> >
> > I think the Grimm-shift in the expanding Germanic was a shibboleth
> > against their para-Germanic cousins, possibly inspired by
> > originally Iranian-speakers among them.
> ****GK: Abayev ("Skifo-yevropeiskie izoglossi",
> Moscow: Nauka, 1965, pp. 131-133) suggests the reverse
> relationship, viz., that under centuries-long Germanic
> influence on its Iranic neighbours, Ossetian
> eventually partially participated in the consonant
> shift (e.g. p->f).****

Does that shift happen in all positions?
I think it's an Iranian thing. There is a 'limited Grimm' at least in
Avestan where stops became fricatives before a consonant.

Robert Beekes, A Grammar of Gatha-Avestan, p. 73-74
'31. Stop + consonant
Voiceless stops became fricatives before any consonant:
þ > f, t > þ, k > x /fra/, Skt. prá.
/kamnafšva-/ 'small herds', cf. /pasu-/.
/þva-/ 'your', Skt. tvá-.
/manþra-/, Skt. mantra-.
/xratu-/, Skt. krátu-.
/xšapa:-/ 'evening', Skt. ks.ap-.
An exception is -pt-, which remains unaltered:
/hapti/ 3s : /hafs^i/ 2s.
/haptaþa-/ 'seventh', Skt. saptátha-.
/pta:/ 'father'
(but /fþrai/ Ds with þr < tr and fþ < pþ;
thus also /rafþra-/ 'support', root /rap-/).
A preceding s prevents the development: /stra?am/ 'star' Gp. /a:skti-/

Before vocalic r the stop was not changed: /prsa-/ 'ask', but aor.
/fraš-/ (*prek´-s-). /a:trm/ 'fire' As, but gen. /a:þrah/.
Before the PIE suffix -to- we find the spirant, as in /haþya-/ 'true',
Skt. satyá-.
But when Sievers' Law operated we have the stop:
/naptia-/ 'descendent' (unless we have here the suffix -i?a-, which
cannot often be decided).
Here may also belong the development of tenuis + laryngeal to spirant.
Formerly it was assumed that this development was Indo-Iranian. Cf. 52.3.
/paþi/ 'path' Ls, Skt. pathí.
/prþu-/ 'broad', Skt. prthú-.
/haptaþa-/ 'seventh', Skt. saptátha-.
Here too a preceding s prevents the development:
/vaista/ 'you know', Skt. véttha (LAv -þa, Skt. -tha < *-th2é).'

This odd rule led to this horrible paradigm for "father" in Gatha-Avestan
NomSg pta:
AccSg ptaram
DatSg piþrai/fþrai/fðro:i

No one can live with a language like that in the long run,
aspececially if foreigners have to learn it. Note the DatSg form
fðro:i, if we generalize that, inserting a schwa secundum and moving
stress to the first syllable we get
vel sim., etc, if you get the idea.