Re: Hachmann versus Kossack?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:

>
>
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > > GK: Sorry, Torsten,but this won't do. You're
> > > retreating into generalities. The question "Why
> > > Przeworsk?", rather than, say, Gubin Yastorf, has not
> > > been answered. And the relationship between "Berig's
> > > people" and "Przeworsk" even less.
> >
> > Like this:
> > After Ariovistus' defeat, some of the upper layer went northeast
> > to Jastorf and influenced that culture to become Elbe Germani.
>
> ****GK: Why would that culture not have been in
> process of transformation into Elbe Germanic prior to
> and independently of the Ariovistus saga? He was
> Suebian before coming to Gaul, left relatives in his
> homeland, and had nearly all the Semnones (most
> likely)on the banks of the Rhine (led by other
> leaders) ready to join him before his defeat.****

Let's adopt that theory for a moment. We now have a causeless effect,
viz. cultural transition from Jastorf to Elbe Germani, and an
effectless cause, viz. the arrival of Harudes in Elbe Germani
territory (Ariovistus' 24,000 homeless refugees, the presence of
Harudes somewhere on the Elbe according to the Monumentum Ancyranum
and Vellejus Paterculus
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/55616
and later we find them in Jutland or Norway (Hardsyssel, Hordaland).
Let's combine the two and make Occam happy.

>
> > Later they went to Denmark and Southern Scandinavia from where
> > Berig, as part of that layer, went to the southern coast of the
> > Baltic.
> > That takes some proving.
>
> ****GK: At the moment that's just a verbal assertion
> which requires no other disproof than an equally
> verbal denial.****

Usually you're more detailed than that, but I guess Danish archeology
is not your strong suit? ;-)

> Now, shoot away.
>
> ****GK: There seems to be no consensus amongst
> linguists as to the time frame of the initiation and
> spread of the Grimm shift. I could mention some
> pertinent facts about the spread of "Germanic" partly
> independent of this, partly related thereto (in the
> eyes of some at any rate). Anon.****

Pleased do. Always nice to get an outsiders view.

> > BTW, if we assume the Gothic language came about that way we might
> > see Gothic as language not inflenced by Verner, but with loans
> > that are (fulgins etc), instead of the traditional view that
> > Gothic was influenced by Verner, but later regularized
> > paradigms.
>
>
> ****GK: BTW AF has sent me a defence of his "Asiatic
> Germans" position. Purely linguistic. Is there any
> reason why he can't propose this to the cybalist
> community? He says he's "under embargo", but another
> post of his has just appeared here...****
> >

No, he's just hiding because he's afraid there's a big bully on
cybalist waiting to clobber him.


Torsten