Re: Gemination in Celtic

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud"
<fournet.arnaud@...> wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anders R. Joergensen" <ollga_loudec@...>
>
> However, and this is my most important point, we have yet to see
> _one_ good example of Eastern -h2g- : Italo-Celt. -kk-, let alone
> enough to begin considering changing the phonemic inventory of PIE.
> Or have I completely misunderstood what you are saying? Please let

me

> know, I don't mind being corrected.
> Anders
>
> =================
>
> I have already provided maybe four times :
>
> *bhel-H2-k "beam"
> Gaulish *bala:kon
> SKrt bhur-i-jau < -H-g-
> Greek phalan-g-s
> Latin ful-c-io
> Isn't this clear ?

You also gave a W balog first time around. What is your source for
this and for Gaul. *bala:kon? Anyway, as I said the last time, I
don't see the relevance. W -Vg-, Gaul. -k- looks very much like
PCelt. single *-k-.

>
> You consider *bhu-H2-k "bock", and *ka?pul "horse" are not

acceptable.

I think PCelt. *bukko- is a possibility (though a loan from Germanic
is quite likely). However, the evidence for -h2- in this word is weak
at best. Av. bu:za- has regular lengthening of short *u in initial,
open syllables, as described by de Vaan, The Avestan Vowels (2003).

A PCelt. *kappilo- is not possible, on the other hand, especially not
surviving as such into Irish - but we've already been over this.

> Nor kwoH2ta > potta.

Since you didn't provide any attestations of this word from a Celtic
language, I don't think it can be used to prove much.

>
> I thought you had accepted s-maH2-k "eat, taste"
> *makk gallo-romance versus smag-

It's not impossible, but Gallo-Romance *makk- means 'to crush' or the
like, not 'to eat' or 'to taste'. Furthermore, you didn't give any
instances of the word from actual Celtic languages (I mentioned a
Bret. mac'hañ, but this can easily be a loan from Gallo-Rom.)

I also don't see the evidence for positing *-h2- in the root.

Whether or not your dialectal mak- 'eat' belongs here, I cannot say.
There are, however, realistic alternatives to a derivation from
ONorm./OPic. maquer 'to break hemp'.

>
> You have not stated what you think of
> O. irl menicc = many ?

This is indeed a word with an old geminate. However, the closest
cognate outside Celtic seems to be Germ. *manaG-, which cannot have
PIE *-g- (< *-?k-), as one would suppose in a non-Italo-Celtic
language. Or did I misunderstand you?

> and
> creicc "buy" < kwriH2-k-
> Greek pri-a-o (a = H2)

Another derivative of this root is OIr. críth < PCelt. *kWri:tu-.

>
> Now
> briccus "speckled" is better compared with *bhreH2-k-
> than with Lituanian marga.

Is this Pokorny's (p. 139) *bher&g^-, *bhre:g^- 'glänzen, weiS'? Or
are you thinking of another root? What Eastern words are you hinting
at?

Anders