Re: Mitanni and Matsya

----- Original Message -----
From: "Francesco Brighenti" <frabrig@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 5:17 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Mitanni and Matsya






--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
wrote:

> I would suggest for a people devoted to trading at sea, Varuna
> might take a more important position than among inland-dwelling
> populations...

.like the Rigvedic Aryans? Or, perhaps, you think that the latter
were "a people devoted to trading at sea"?

***

The question is rather: who were the people whose views inspired the
Rig-Veda?

***

> I think speculation about Hurrian or any non-IE origins is
> unnecessary if we accept *weru- as the source. The 'one who
> confines' just does not make any sense for a 'sea-god'; and I
> propose that is what Varuna was _originally_.

Few Indologists and Vedicists would support such a statement, with a
relevant exception being represented by Asko Parpola, who sees in
Varuna an aquatic god whose cult would have been taken up by the
Indo-Aryan-speaking invaders of India from the Harappans.


***

Unless the Harappans were IE's, I doubt that borrowing would have been
necessary.

I do not think the Harappans were IE's.

***

The fact is that Varuna is not just the lord of the ocean, as he is
now, but in the Rigveda he is, much more importantly, the chief of
the Adityas, the group gods reinforcing Law and Order (Rta), and
therefore, the main overseer of truthful behavior. I have already
pointed you all to the etymology, now increasingly accepted by
Vedicists, which derives the name Varuna from a root noun
meaning 'true speech'.

***

Well, David has 'Confiner'; you have 'True One'.

I ask you both: explain the _u_ in Varuna.

***

It is true that Varuna is addressed as the lord (and husband) of
waters -- viz., as the apam patih -- already in the Rigveda. Yet,
it is only in post-Vedic mythology that Varuna is confined almost
exclusively to the role of a Lord of Waters, who possesses the
rivers, is regarded as the lord of aquatic creatures (including sea
monsters), and has his abode in the ocean.

***

Fashions change. One god or another gains power through its priesthood and
they start claiming functions for their favorite that were not original.

I maintain that the characteristics you mentioned belong to Mitra; and
before Mitra-Varuna, Varuna's partisans attempted to attach Mitra's
prerogatives.

***

I thought to clarify this point because some of you take it for
granted that Varuna was the Vedic sea-god, which he wasn't.

Regards,
Francesco

***

How the Vedas regard Varuna is of interest but not decisive.

Varuna existed long before the Vedas and long afterward.


Patrick

***