Re: Not "catching the wind " , or, what ARE we discussing?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tgpedersen
> >
> > The Grimm/Verner/Kluge complex of changes is uniquely Germanic and
> > can be conveniently regarded as the defining autapomorphy of the
> > group.
>
> Nice try. Kluge does not belong there. Firstly, it's logically
> detachable from Grimm/Verner, secondly, I hear that it occurs in
> Celtic too, and thirdly, Kuhn was only able to find half a dozen
> geminates in the Gothic Bible, so Kluge, or substrate from a
> geminating language didn't happen in East Germanic. It's a
> NWGermanic thing, it becomes increasing common in the North and West
> Germanic languages over time, and the Chatti, a local non-Germanic,
> non-Celtic tribe has geminates in the few opaque words we know of
> it. Everything points to Chattic substrate.
>
> Torsten
> ================
> Nice try as well, on your side.
>
> The odd thing about Kluge's Law is then
> that this law is discovered in Germanic
> but relates in fact to a Celtic Substrate.

Why do you think they become Celtic by your decreeing them to be that?

> Your repeated assertion that Chatti are not Celtic is unsupported.

Your repeated assertions that points of view other than your own are
unsupported are unsupported. My repeated assertion echoes the
archaeologist O. Uenze. Read this again:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/56384

> What opaque words do we know from Chatti ?

I cite from
Kuhn: Chatti und Mattium, die langen Tenues des Altgermanischen:

Chatti (also Catti, later Hessen), their capital Mattium (now Maden),
the town of Metze, the brook it's at Metzoff/Matzoff, the subtribe
Chatt-uarii, later Hattuaria / Hatteron, Mattiaci, aquae Mattiacae,
many town and field names in Hesse in Metz-, the personal names Arpus,
Flanallus, Lives, Ramis, Gandestrius or Adgandestrius, Catu- or
Actu-merus and Ucro-mirus, etc.

In AngloSaxon we find the personal names Pælli, Pede, Peuf, Pleil,
Piott, Ploesa, Podda, Puh and Puttoc (note, Brian: p- and geminate),
obviously part of the ssame ethnic admixture.


Torsten