Re: Gemination in Celtic

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud"
<fournet.arnaud@...> wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Anders R. Joergensen
>
> Well, I guess I'll have to disagree with you on that. I also find

the

> evidence for *kwh2C- > Latin caC- shaky, to say the least. Lat.
> canis, which you gave earlier as an example of this, is usually (for
> good reasons) reconstructed without h2.
> ======
> I disagree too
> Let's say this word does not count.
> Arnaud

OK, that seems safest.

> > ==========
> > >
> > > bukk- "male"
> > > Tsigane, avestique buz < *bu-g-
> >
> > But we can't rule out a loan from Germanic for this word, can we?
> >
> > What would it be in Germanic ?
>
> ON bukkr/bokkr, OHG boc, ModG Bock, OEng. bucca, etc.
> < PGerm. *bukka- and poss. *bukkan-, taken to reflect an n-stem
> *bHug^-on- ~ *bHug^-n- by Schumacher, as I mentioned earlier.
>
> =======
> We can't rule out that Kluge'Law applies to Celtic too.
> So maybe this word counts for nil.
> Arnaud

Yes, of maybe we would expect *buggo- in Celtic, depending on how
Kluge's Law work there. That remains to be worked out. If ModIr. lag
is from *lagnó- (or *lh2g-nó- vel sim.), then that seems to be the
case. But one will have to re-review the evidence collected by Lühr.

>
> >
> > Ok
> > how do we tell -kk- and -gg- in Celtic ?
> > Arnaud
>
> *kk > OIr. <cc, c>, ModIr. <c>, Brit. *x (W ch, Bret. c'h)
> *gg > OIr. <c> (usually), ModIr. <g>, Brit. *g (WBret. g)
>
> Examples are of course harder to come by than with simple *k and *g
>
> =======
> What are examples for that ?
> Arnaud

I'll get back to that.

>
> =======
> What about slugim "swallow < *slukk ?
> Arnaud

W llyncu, Bret. lonkañ shows very cleraly that this is from PCelt.
*slunk-, which regularly gives OIr. sluc- /slug-/ (nk > g).

> > >
> > > makk "eat"
> > > smag "taste"
> >
> > What Celtic words are you thinking of?
> >
> > French mâcher < *makk-
> > Arnaud
>
> Isn't this just from Lat. mastica:re? (and the <^> in French usually
> implies the existence of a lost <s>, confirmed by the Old(?) French
> maschier)
>
> ========
> No
> Northern French je mak- "I eat"
> impossible from masticare.
> Arnaud

Well, Norman French (and Picard?, I'm not sure) doesn't have
palatalization of k+a, so if that is the origin of mak-, then no
problem. *mastika:re > *masker > mak- (or similarly).

> > >
> > > mrekk- "speckled"
> > > Lituanian margas
> >
> > What about this example ?
> > Arnaud
>
> What is the evidence for a laryngeal in these words?
> Anders
> =========
> Precisely
> the alternation -kk- ~ g.

Which we still need to prove... so far it hasn't been done, has it?

>
> Do you have a list of all proto-Celtic forms
> with -gg- and -kk- ?

No, but I can refer you to Lühr article, mentioned in an earlier post.

Anders