Re: Taurisci and Przeworsk

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> We know from Ptolemy that in 160 CE the
> Teuriochaimai were somewhere
> in Bohemia
> http://tinyurl.com/3dmufs
> (this author is led to move Ptolemy's placement of
> them from 'north of
> the Sudeten range', ie. in today's Czech lands,

****GK: Actually, "north of the Sudeten range" in
Ptolemy (2.10) points towards southeast Germany
(Zwickau, Dresden, Bautzen)****



to

> 'north of the
> Erzgebirge', ie in Saxony or Thuringia, by his
> desire to explain the
> name of the Hermunduri/Thuringi; let's stick to what
> Ptolemy actually
> says.

****GK: Let's by all means ****

Now, if Boiohaim- is the now Germanic former

> home of the Boii,
> then Teuriochaim- must be the now (160 CE) Germanic
> former home of the
> Teuri-. Which means at some time before that we
> would have the
> Taurisci in Bohemia

****GK: According to Ptolemy the "Teuriochaimai" NOW
live where they live, "north of the Sudetes".
According to your logic the former home of the "Teuri"
is wherever the "Teuriochaimai" came from. We don't
know where that is.****

and the Przeworsk in Silesia.

****GK: And what does this have to do with the
Taurisci?****

>
>
> The first we hear of Ariovistist is his encounter
> with Q. Metellus
> Celer in 62 BCE.

****GK: Wrong. Pliny only speaks of a "king of the
Suebi" in Germania, who has dealings with the Roman
governor of Gallia Cisalpina.

That is four, not fourteen years

> before he meets
> Caesar. It seems unreasonable to assume that he
> became the ally of the
> Sequani and Arverni much before that time, there is
> no reaction from
> the Romans before that

****GK: Why should there be? They only reacted when
the Aedui approached them for help.*****

and fourteen years seems an

> excessive time for
> Ariovistus to have run his racket in Gallia,

****GK: But that's what he says: "fourteen years" with
"no roof over his head". Probably constant skirmishes
as a mercenary on behalf of the Arverni before his
"big break". A "no roof" leader seems hardly implied
in the Pliny tale about the Indian merchants.****

after

> so long time,
> colonization would have forced the Arverni and Ardui
> out.

*****GK: But that started after Ariovistus won his big
victory. The Romans did not yet view him as a threat
in 59 BCE when they established friendly relations
with him.****

So I think,

> given the also small timespan of the appearance of
> the Thuringia
> (Central Germania) and Wetterau Przeworsk expansions
> that

****GK: All we can say is that these sites were
occupied in the latter half of the 1rst c. BCE by
Przeworsk culture populations. In 72-58 BCE
Ariovistus' people (the original 15,000 plus those
invited shortly before 58 BCE) were in Gaul. In 58 BCE
masses of Suevi were at the border. None of this left
a trace in terms of material remnants. The Przeworsk
settlers were likely Marcomanni, in the period after
Ariovistus, when they became "Suebi" and pressured the
Romans constantly until Maroboduus led them into
Bohemia.****

it is a

> reasonable assumption that Ariovist led the Suevi
> etc all the way from
> Przeworsk to Thuringia to Wetterau to Gallia.

****GK: He may have taken that route (though I think
he was rather an Elbe Suebian). His trek was a fast
one, sometime around 72 BCE. It left no archaeological
traces.****

>
>
> Torsten
>
>
>
>
>

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