Re: Fw: Re: [tied] hoopoe

Maybe they are from the same root; but some high-powered people have looked
and evidently that not.

I wouldlike them to be.

And, in my opinion, you are right about the initial aspirate; but, for my
purposes, the *p needs to also be an aspirate: *p(h)

(s)t(h)eup(h)


Patrick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick McCallister" <gabaroo6958@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [tied] hoopoe


> I think stump and tuft are from the same root --"sth
> that sticks up, sth plug-shaped". i suppose "tap, top,
> stop" are from the same word. Also Spanish tope
> "traffic bump, dead end", topar(se) "to bump into".
>
> --- Patrick Ryan <proto-language@...> wrote:
>
> > Torsten,
> >
> > just to let you know, I am aware of Pokorny's
> > *(s)teu-p-, 'stump'. and
> > perhaps we are dealing with a semantically related
> > unattested meaning of
> > 'tuft' for it?
> >
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
> > To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 3:41 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: [tied] hoopoe
> >
> >
> > > Yes, Torsten, thank you.
> > >
> > > It may be a better cognate for D(w)b, 'hoopoe',
> > than *tap-.
> > >
> > > I looked but could not find anything like <stuppa>
> > in Pokorny.
> > >
> > > Is it there and I missed it?
> > >
> > > With Db (*Dwb), PIE *teup- would work much more
> > satisfactorily.
> > >
> > >
> > > Patrick
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
> > > To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 3:11 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: [tied] hoopoe
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: tgpedersen
> > > > > >
> > > > > > =============
> > > >
> > > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick
> > McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps the words for tuft of hair, pompon and
> > tutf of
> > > > > tree --if they are related-- are from the word
> > for
> > > > > hoopoe, which definitely has a tuft in the
> > picture.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You noticed it too? Perhaps the *dz could
> > explain the s-mobile, st-/t-
> > > > alternation in stuppa/top etc:
> > > >
> >
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/54315
> > > >
> > > > Torsten
> > > >
> > > > =============
> > > >
> > > > One conspicuous feature of s-mobile,
> > > > is that it's about the only phoneme that
> > > > never assimilates :
> > > > s +k > s-k
> > > > but
> > > > s + g > s-k as well
> > > >
> > > > My own explanation is this :
> > > >
> > > > LAte PIE fused *z and *dz
> > > > (after Salish split off)
> > > > or maybe *z and *dz disappeared
> > > > altogether.
> > > > But *ts did not fuse with *s
> > > > immediately.
> > > > They remained in contrast.
> > > >
> > > > *ts could not assimilate into *dz
> > > > because there was no *dz
> > > > *ts was *locked-in* as unvoiced.
> > > > Hence ts-g forced inverted assimilation
> > > > because *dz-g was impossible
> > > > (no dz in the system !)
> > > > Hence ts-k which surfaces as *s-k
> > > >
> > > > But this is maybe too early to discuss
> > > > because you haven't admitted *z and *dz yet.
> > > >
> > > > Arnaud
> > > >
> > > > ==========
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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