From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 55586
Date: 2008-03-21
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...>
To: "Patrick Ryan" <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:19 PM
Subject: Re[2]: [tied] Re: dhuga:ter ('LARYNGEALS')
> At 6:54:17 PM on Thursday, March 20, 2008, Patrick Ryan
> wrote:
>
> > From: "Miguel Carrasquer Vidal" <miguelc@...>
>
> >> On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:43:06 -0500, "Patrick Ryan"
> >> <proto-language@...> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >>> By the 'l-theory', Miguel rightly projected *senáH2- for
> >>> the result of the first form. By my method, we would
> >>> expect *s°néH- -> *sene:-.
>
> >>> Which is more likely to fund the actual forms seen in
> >>> <senex>?
>
> >> *senáh2-, of course. The nominative *senáh2s becomes
> >> *senáks with laryngeal hardening, the acc. *senáh2m
> >> becomes *sená:m. *senáks regularly gives Lat. senex, the
> >> acc. shortened the vowel under the influence of the
> >> nominative and we regularly have *senam > senem. The
> >> opposite occurred in the suffix *-trih2-, where we would
> >> expect nom. *-triks, with a short vowel, acc. *-tri:m.
> >> Here, the nom. took over the long vowel from the acc.,
> >> giving Latin -tri:x, acc. -tri:cem. That the vowel had
> >> already been coloured to /a/ by *h2 before laryngeal
> >> hardening (something which Latin cannot show) is seen in
> >> the other cognates I listed: Slavic -a:k, Armenian -ac,
> >> -ak`, Greek -ax, -a:x, all with *a or *a:.
>
> > We have been dancing around the fact that every
> > 'laryngeal' in *s°néH-s seems to harden, perhaps because
> > PIE would not tolerate adjacent fricatives so the first
> > one was 'hardened' into the stop /k/. If nominative
> > singular *z, in which I do not believe, voiced anything,
> > it should have voiced the *H, or the 'hardened' /k/ to
> > /g/.
>
> > There were no *a's (unless already lengthened to *a:) in
> > PIE by the time we get to adding case-endings.
>
> '[B]y the time we get to adding case-endings'?!
>
> > What, exactly, changed *a to *e "regularly"?
>
> You mean to get from *senáks and *senam to <senex> and
> <senam>? In non-initial closed syllables *a and *e merge as
> /e/ in Latin.
>
> Brian
>
>
>