From: fournet.arnaud
Message: 55576
Date: 2008-03-20
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian M. Scott
To: fournet.arnaud
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:24 PM
Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re[3]: [tied] Re: dhuga:ter
At 3:57:58 PM on Thursday, March 20, 2008, fournet.arnaud
wrote:
===========
>I wouldn't be surprised if it was precisely senex ~ senem
>what led Martinet to look into the matter of laryngeal
>hardening in the first place.
>Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
==========
> You are supposed to be
> a reliable serious IE expert.
> You claim you read Martinet
> and you wrote "I wouldn't be surprised..."
> I have to contradict you once again,
> No, this is not true,
> it's obvious you did not read him,
I doubt it. Can you quote a passage in which Martinet
explains what led him to investigate laryngeal hardening?
If not, then Miguel's 'I wouldn't be surprised' comment says
absolutely nothing about whether he's read Martinet or not.
Brian
==============
Martinet, 1975, Evolution des langues et reconstruction,
PUF, Paris.
P148
"les formes indo-européennes en -a:k
et leurs thématisations en -a:ko- paraissent
désigner surtout des êtres masculins,
on est amené à penser que -k- est apparu
dans des contextes particuliers aux masculins.
Ceci évoque les masculins en -a:- du grec,
avec leur -s# de nominatif singulier,
s'opposant aux féminins sans -s#.
Ce serait donc devant la désinence -s
du nominatif singulier que H2,
phonétiquement quelque fricative dorso-vélaire,
se serait durci en -k- alors qu'il tendait
à s'affaiblir partout ailleurs."
This approach is likewise described
in Martinet, 1986, Des steppes aux Océans,
Payot, Paris, p154 à 157
Le s qu'on peut rendre responsable
du durcissement de la laryngale est,
outre la marque du nominatif, ...
[...]
les noms féminins en -a: ne prennent
jamais le -s du nominatif
[...]
les masculins en a:- < eH2 sont
tout autre chose
[...]
le produit a:ks est attesté dans
une série d'adjectifs du type auda:ks
morda:ks, etc
Martinet delves into
the result of masculine nouns
ending with eH2
(like agri-cola, or Greek nauta)
(as opposed to feminine nouns -a:)
that are alternating with
adjectives which end with a:-k-s.
It is obvious that
Miguel has *not the slightest*
beginning of an idea about what
Martinet ever wrote.
Otherwise He would never
have written his obviously
completely off-target suggestion.
Mr Carrasquer Vidal
has never opened any book
or article by Martinet
about this issue.
This fact is obvious.
His claim of the contrary
is colliding with Martinet's approach
in the most blatant manner.
Arnaud
========
> You're making a fool of yourself.
*Someone* certainly is ...
Brian
==========
You have taken the risk
that it may be *you*
(in addition to Miguel)
The fact that you expressed
any doubt is also a proof
of your complete ignorance
of Martinet.
Shame on you both.
Arnaud
=============