Re: Latin -idus as from dH- too => and the accent of Grk. *dHugh2ter

There is no record of long vowels in PAA except as products of composition:
*a + *y -> *e:, etc.


Patrick

----- Original Message -----
From: "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [tied] Latin -idus as from dH- too => and the accent of
Grk. *dHugh2ter


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
>
>
> > A) The Greek rythmic rules trigger the apparition of the long
> >vowels (etc...) by preserving the original accentuation
>
> What a load of crap.
> Miguel
> ============
> To Miguel
> It's not worse that your theory
> about *e: in pre-PIE.
>
> Semitic probably lenghtened stressed vowels
> Starting from a situation where all vowels were short.
>
> Arnaud
> =============
>
> >b) Next the original accent of the basic form WAS ON THE LAST
> >SYLLABLE
>
> *dhug&2té:r, yes.
>
> ==========
> ok
> Arnaud
> ========
>
> Yes it is: Pre-Greek *thúgate:r.
>
> =========
> What's this ?
> Vocative or Nom ?
>
> Voc *thúgater
> Nom *thugaté:r
>
> I don't think **thúgate:r could exist.
>
> Arnaud
> ===========
>
>
> Indeed: *p&2té:r, *méh2te:r and *dhug&2té:r are
> reconstructed with long vowels because "each one see a long
> e: there". We see it in Greek (thugáte:r), we see it in
> Sanskrit (duhitá:), we see it in Avestan (duGða:), we see it
> in Gothic (dauhtar, not *dauhtr), in Balto-Slavic (dukte:~,
> *dUktí), in Tocharian (tka:cer, not *tka:cär), etc.
>
> ===================
> It can be shared innovations.
>
> Arnaud
> ===================
>
>
> > pat /e':/ r => /e': -> e'e/
> > ma':t /e:/ r
> > [vocative] tHu'gater => no need to change something
>
> What "necessity" is there to lengthen the vowel in +patér or
> +mé:ter? Was the vowel lengthened in sophós or in thêres? I
> suggest you learn some Greek.
>
> ====================
> Lengthening the vowel is the only way
> to express Nominative -s with root
> ending with -r where -rs# is impossible.
>
> The same problem happens with
> your belove *yekwr and *gwher words.
>
> Arnaud
> ================
>
> So how do you explain the accusative thugatéra?
>
> ==========
>
> Starting form *dhugH2°tér
>
> (Post anatolian) PIE :
> Nom *dhugH2°tér > *dhugH2°té:r
> (Nom -s converted into e:r)
> Voc *dhu'gH2°ter
> (pragmatic stress on first syllable)
> Acc *dhugH2°tér-n. > *dhugH2°téra
> (no need to lengthen)
>
> Arnaud
> ============
>
>
>