Re: Latin -idus as from dH- too => and the accent of Grk. *dHugh2ter

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
<miguelc@...> wrote:

>
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:10:29 -0000, "alexandru_mg3"
> <alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:
>
>
> >I made a copy/paste for some of your questions "why one like this

and

> >why the other like that"?
> >
> >"
> >Penult accent hardly
> >occurs in underived stems, though many inherently accented
> >derivational suffixes can
> >yield stems with penult accent. For example, nonderived words with
> >penult accent,
> >such as a hypothetical *peléku-s, do not occur, although there are
> >many derived words
> >with penult accent, such as anthroop-ísk-o-s "little person".
> >Once morphology
> >is taken into account, stems can be divided into accented and
> >unaccented
> >stems, the former with a lexically associated stem-final accent,

the

> >latter with recessive
> >accent. Both are preserved as far as the undominated constraints

on

> >accent and
> >intonation permit.
> >"
>
> Out of all the passages you could have quoted from
> Kiparsky's article, you go and quote one that plainly
> contradicts your notion about thugáte:r as preserving the
> position of the Pre-Greek accent. As Kiparsky says: "penult
> accent hardly occurs in underived stems".
>
> The word for "daughter" belongs to the accented (oxytone)
> words (PIE hysterodynamic paradigm): acc. thugatéra, gen.
> thugatrós, Npl. thugatéres. The exceptions are the Voc.sg.
> (of course), and the Nom. sg., which are recessive
> ("unaccented").
>
> Kiparsky does offer an interesting theory about why the Nsg.
> form has recessive accent. I wonder how you can have missed
> it (it's on page 11).
>
> >Another demonstration of the generalization that accent in
> >simple words is assigned on the basis of the pre-contraction
> >syllable structure comes from the process of IAMBIC RETRACTION.
> >This process, first identified in Bartoli 1930, deaccents
> >a final iambic sequence (^ -') in polysyllabic words,
> >resulting in recessive accentuation.
> >The effect of this retraction appears systematically in the
> >inflection of consonant stems (see (23a)) and with several
> >derivational suffixes, such as -tees and -lee (see (23b,c)).
> >
> >(23)
> >a. /thu.ga.teér/ thu.gá.teer 'daughter' (Acc.Sg. thu.ga.tér-a)
> >b. /er.ga.-teés/ er.gá.tees 'worker' (a.go.reu.-teés 'orator')
> >c. /di.e.-teés/ di.é.tees 'two-year' (Koine dieteés)
> >d. /ne.phe.-leé/ ne.phé.lee 'cloud' (ter.poo.-leé 'delight')
>
> This sounds interesting. It would mean that the recessive
> accentuation of thugáte:r is regular, and not the result of
> analogy after mé:te:r or the vocative thúgater. I like it,
> but I'd have to take a closer look at the implications.
>
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> miguelc@...

I.

1. So suddenly it's not From Vocative 'dance'?

2. Or from ma':te:r because 'daughters will become mothers'?


============> How quick you have changed your opinion.

IAMBIC RETRACTION theory Miguel is not applicable for tHuga'te:r

There are multiple points of view in that article, that the author
presented, some of them in contradiction.
You cannot quote all of them in the same time. :)
Please take a look first who said thsi and who said thta.


II. Now a question for your 'accent wondering theory'
======================================================
IF the Original /e:/ in pate':r was long WHY YOUR 'WONDERING ACCENT
THEORY' DIDN'T ARRIVE TO MOVE IT on PENUL. SYLLABLE AS EXPECTED (and
as you have proposed for /tHu-ga'-t:er/ after it would have dance for
awhile on the first syllable /tHu'-ga-t:er/?

(te:r in pate':r, being a heavy syllable too isn't it, as in
dHuga'te:r too...)


Marius