Re: Latin -idus as from dH- too => and the accent of Grk. *dHugh2ter

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:10:29 -0000, "alexandru_mg3"
<alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:

>I made a copy/paste for some of your questions "why one like this and
>why the other like that"?
>
>"
>Penult accent hardly
>occurs in underived stems, though many inherently accented
>derivational suffixes can
>yield stems with penult accent. For example, nonderived words with
>penult accent,
>such as a hypothetical *peléku-s, do not occur, although there are
>many derived words
>with penult accent, such as anthroop-ísk-o-s "little person".
>Once morphology
>is taken into account, stems can be divided into accented and
>unaccented
>stems, the former with a lexically associated stem-final accent, the
>latter with recessive
>accent. Both are preserved as far as the undominated constraints on
>accent and
>intonation permit.
>"

Out of all the passages you could have quoted from
Kiparsky's article, you go and quote one that plainly
contradicts your notion about thugáte:r as preserving the
position of the Pre-Greek accent. As Kiparsky says: "penult
accent hardly occurs in underived stems".

The word for "daughter" belongs to the accented (oxytone)
words (PIE hysterodynamic paradigm): acc. thugatéra, gen.
thugatrós, Npl. thugatéres. The exceptions are the Voc.sg.
(of course), and the Nom. sg., which are recessive
("unaccented").

Kiparsky does offer an interesting theory about why the Nsg.
form has recessive accent. I wonder how you can have missed
it (it's on page 11).

>Another demonstration of the generalization that accent in
>simple words is assigned on the basis of the pre-contraction
>syllable structure comes from the process of IAMBIC RETRACTION.
>This process, first identified in Bartoli 1930, deaccents
>a final iambic sequence (^ -') in polysyllabic words,
>resulting in recessive accentuation.
>The effect of this retraction appears systematically in the
>inflection of consonant stems (see (23a)) and with several
>derivational suffixes, such as -tees and -lee (see (23b,c)).
>
>(23)
>a. /thu.ga.teér/ thu.gá.teer 'daughter' (Acc.Sg. thu.ga.tér-a)
>b. /er.ga.-teés/ er.gá.tees 'worker' (a.go.reu.-teés 'orator')
>c. /di.e.-teés/ di.é.tees 'two-year' (Koine dieteés)
>d. /ne.phe.-leé/ ne.phé.lee 'cloud' (ter.poo.-leé 'delight')

This sounds interesting. It would mean that the recessive
accentuation of thugáte:r is regular, and not the result of
analogy after mé:te:r or the vocative thúgater. I like it,
but I'd have to take a closer look at the implications.

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
miguelc@...