Re: Laryngeal Reduction - Rule-1: -CHCC- > -CCC-

----- Original Message -----
From: "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Laryngeal Reduction - Rule-1: -CHCC- > -CCC-


--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud"
<fournet.arnaud@...> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: alexandru_mg3
> > ===============
> >
> > I don't think this example proves the supposed rule.
> >
> > Hebrew d_b_r "to speak"
> > is the same thing as PIE *wer "speak"
> > with inverted order of morphemes.
> > No traces of H1.
> > This is a case of alternation
> > *wer-H1 versus *wer-dh.
> >
> > Arnaud
> >
> > ==================
>
> Same case as in *bHoi-h- /*bHoi-dH- isn't it?
>
> Marius
>
> ===============
> Why not ?
>
> Do you have data to support
> either *bheidh-om or *bhidh-om ?
>
> Like in LAtin v(e)rbum ?
>
> Arnaud
>
> ================

Arnaud, the root is *bHehi/*bHeih- with laryngeal

the extension is -dHh1- nill-grade of dHeh1

Marius

***

Marius, I think we can safely ignore Arnaud's favorite game of "Musical
Phonemes" (where they sit does not really matter after the music stops), and
actually analyze the word at hand: *bhé(:)Hi-dh&-.

I think it is worth considering that formally, it may be connected with
*bhé(:)H-/*bho(:)H-, 'particle of asseveration, true'.

If this is indeed related. *bhé(:)Hi- in *bhé(:)Hi-dh&- would be adjectival,
meaning 'true', formed with familiar derivational -*y. Since *bhé(:)Hi-dh&-
means 'persuade, have faith in (med.)', I do not think it too much of a
stretch to consider that that the basic underlying idea is 'hold to be true'
medially, and 'cause someone to hold to be true' = "persuade" actively.

In this case, *dhA would have a meaning, 'hold', different from the meaning
we exhaustively discussed discussed recently, 'place', based on its
derivation from *dhu- rather than *dhi- for 'place'.


Arnaud, I am certain, while find this "unclear" (it drizzles so much in
Paris) but is this too esoteric for you, also, Marius?



Patrick