Re: Grimm shift as starting point of "Germanic"

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:

>
>
> From: tgpedersen
> >
> > =======================
> >
> > There is also a more complex possibility
> > that there is actually a substrate
> > (which I think is Celtic)
>
> You like to think that, don't you? Louis XIV (the guy who made you
> French) had an army of lawyers who whenever some German local
> potentate died could prove that Louis had a hereditary territorial
> claim on his property. Of course, if they could have proved instead
> (but that wasn't fashionable yet) that his Germanic neighbors spoke
> some type of Celtic then those neighbors would have actually been
> French without realizing it and only had to be persuaded with love
> and armies that this was so. It would have been so much easier.
> ===================
> What is the relevance of this ?
> When it comes to Celtic and NWB,
> please explain.
>
> As regards NWB, I knew little about it
> before you provide information.
> On account of which,
> I see no reason to invent extra languages,
> I think this NWB is Celtic.

On account of that you know nothing about it except what I told you
decided it was Celtic?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock
This statement
"However, most linguistic features forwarded to sustain a separate
Indo-European language, including tribenames like "Belgian", could be
derived from both proto-Germanic and proto-Celtic"
is false. One of the features by which one might distinguish NWBlock
substrate words or place names is initial p-. The nice thing about
this criterion is that those words can neither be Germanic (initial p-
must be from PIE b-, but PIE b- is virtually non-existent) nor Celtic
(initial p- is lost in Celtic, as you of course knew?).

> (And I have no particular territorial claim)

Oh yes, you do. Calling it Celtic is a territorial claim.

> Arnaud
> ============
> > and that Germanic borrowed words with geminates
> > because it also had created other words with geminates
> > on its own.
> >
> > Arnaud
> > ====================
>
> That's complex all right. Germanic had created some words with
> geminates and therefore they decided to borrow some words with
> geminates from a substrate?
> Erh, what?
> Torsten
>
> ==============
> Maybe you prefer a more Torstenesque scenario :
> Some words were brought from Africa by
> pseudo Atlantico-Semiticoid people
> who settled on the Island of Man,
> After that they moved to the continent
> because the weather is too rainy up there,
> and became the language of geminates,
> Because they got a cold, and had got a twang,
> they had plenty of nasals to apply Kluge's law.
> It's less complex that my approach, I guess.
> Which one do you prefer ?
> Arnaud
> ==============

Grow up.


Torsten