Re: Grimm shift as starting point of "Germanic"

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer Vidal <miguelc@...>
wrote:

>
> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:03:48 -0000, "tgpedersen"
> <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >> > >Yes, doesn't it. Now what to do with gemination in verbs?
> >> >
> >> > n-stems and j-stems.
> >>
> >> That is, the origin of the geminated and nasal-infixed stems is
> >> n-stems and j-stems, I presume you mean? How come the n- and j-
> >> suffixes survived in some stems and not in others? How come those
> >> stems are associated with velar/labial auslaut alternation?
> >>
> >
> >From Cayce: Grammar of the Gothic Language, §329 (fourth weak
> >class)
> >"
> >Note. â€" All verbs belonging to this class are intransitive, and
> >accordingly have no passive voice.
> >§ 830. The verbs of the fourth class are partly denominative and
> >partly deverbative, and denote the entering into a state expressed
> >by the simplex, as fullnan, to become full; and-bundnan, to become
> >unbound, as compared with fulls, full; and-bindan, to unbind. They
> >correspond in meaning with the inceptive or inchoative verbs in
> >Latin and Greek. They belonged originally to the athematic
> >conjugation(§280) and contained in the pres. indic. the formative
> >suffix -ná:- in the singular and -na:- in the dual and plural, as
> >in Skr. Sing. badh-ná:-mi, I bind, badh-ná:-si, badh-ná:-ti; dual
> >badh-ni:-vás, badh-ni:-thás, badh-ni:-tás ; pl. badh-ni:-más,
> >badh-ni:-thá, badh-n-ánti (= Indg. bhndh-n-énti with vocalic n in
> >the stem). Suc verbs had the weak grade form of the stem (like the
> >pret. pl. and pp. of the first three classes of strong verbs) owing
> >to the accent being on the ná:- in the singular and on the ending
> >in the dual and plural. The -ná:-, -n&- became -nó:- (§ 42), -na-
> >(§ 41) in prim. Germanic.
> >"
> >
> >But plenty of the 'n-infixed' stems of the language of geminates
> >group are transitive?
>
> Plenty of n-infix verbs in PIE are transitive (although most
> are intransitive).

You proposed to solve the mystery of the gemination with n-suffix and
Kluge's law. I assumed that you wanted to solve the problem of the
accompanying 'n-infixed' verb (duck-dunk) with an n-suffix too, but
apparently you don't. If you want to keep the two phenomena
(gemination and 'n-infixation') separate, with separate causes, you
can't account for the fact that these two phenomena occur together in
this group of verbs.

>
> >j-stems should umlaut. But some of the language of geminates verbs
> >do:
> >German tünchen, Da. dykke, some don't: Engl. dunk, duck. Why?
>
> I don't know about "dunk", but "duck", despite the spelling,
> has no geminate in WGmc (OE du:ce, Du. duiken, G. tauchen).

Those are two different verbs. Cf. Da. dykke (weak) "dive", dukke
(weak) "duck", Sw. dyka (strong) "dive". There is a tendency for the
ungeminated verbs to be strong, the geminated to be weak.

> >> > >The whole
> >> > >language of geminates complex?
> >> > >http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/46151
> >> > >http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/46163
> >> > >http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/46169
> >> > >http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/48657
> >> >
> >> > Apparently, the language of geminates == Germanic.
> >>
> >>
> >> So, would you say that the occurrence of these stems in other
> >> languages are loans?
> >
> >No answer?
>
> No. I don't understand the question.

What are "these stems"

The verbal stems, or roots, of the language of geminates, and if you
want an exhaustive list, look in the archives or Schrijvers original
article.

> and what are "other languages"?

Languages other that Germanic.


Torsten