Re: Grimm shift as starting point of "Germanic"

I'm always amazed at the complexity of Catalan
compared to Spanish

I notice some forms have <b> as opposed to <v>. Is
this to mark the difference between /B/ & /v/?

I've seen dialects maps of Catalan that presuppose the
fundamental difference between E & W but obviously the
situation is much more complicated.

While I can usually read all forms of Catalan, the
spoken varieties vary between something that sounds
like a Madrileño reading Catalan (very easy to
understand) to something that might as well be Klingon
(straight from the bottom of the throat). The written
language doesn't catch the even greater complexity of
the spoken language. I've heard Valencian and Barça
forms of Catalan but I can only imagine how difficult
isolated Pyrenees Catalan and Balearic forms must be.


--- Miguel Carrasquer Vidal <miguelc@...> wrote:

> On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 13:23:41 -0800 (PST), Rick
> McCallister
> <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:
>
> >Does this have to do with the east/west division in
> >Catalan?
> >If so, what's the basis for this division?
> >Is it Castillian influence to the west? Pyrenees
> >influence to the east? Occitan influence to the
> east?
> >A combination of all three? Something else?
>
> I don't have the information on the dialect
> distribution at
> hand right now. I know that the (East/Central
> Catalan:
> Girona, Barcelona) norm is [pObbl&], with a geminate
> stop.
> In Southern West Catalan (a.k.a Valencian) what I've
> heard
> most is [pOBle], with a continuant (as in <pobre>
> [poBre]).
> In Tàrrega (Lleida), where my mother's from, the
> only
> pronunciation I've ever heard is [pOple]. Possibly,
> this is
> influence from the Eastern/Barcelonese norm, as can
> be seen
> in other cases (e.g. the pronunciation of final -a
> as [E]
> instead of [a], under the influence of normative
> [&]; or the
> gradual loss of the article <lo> in favour of
> standard
> <el>).
>
> Just found this on the web:
>

http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Catalan:dialect:examples.htm

> All the South-Western samples have <poble>
> (presumably
> [pOBle]), the Eastern examples have [pObbl&].
>
> Note especially the presence of Kluge's law in
> Mallorcan:
> <dobbés> (i.e. [dubbés]) for <doblers> "money".
>
>
> >--- Miguel Carrasquer Vidal <miguelc@...>
> wrote:
> >. . .
> >>
> >> Gemination before a resonant is quite common. A
> good
> >> example
> >> is Catalan <poble>, <segle>, pronounced /pobble/,
> >> /seggle/
> >> (or /pople/, /sekle/).
> > . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

____________________________________________________________________________________

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>
>
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> miguelc@...
>
>

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