--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@>
> wrote:
> >
> > If 'hartia-' is from Germ. *hart-, what made the Finns
> > suddenly change their mind about their supposedly ancient Germ.
*x- ->
> > Finn. *k- ? It doesn't make a lot of sense.
> > Torsten
> >
> > ===========
> >
> > Finnish hartia "shoulder"
> > is really strange.
> >
> > It looks like an odd deformation
> > of the root of *s-kul-t-er
> > with *kul-t > *hart-
> >
> > I don't know if there are
> > other cases when Finnish has
> > -r- when -l- is expected.
> >
> > Arnaud
> >
> According to DEO *harþi-, pl. *harþiðz has plenty of family within
> NWGermanic, but is otherwise 'of disputed origin'. Why it's
classified
> as a loan from Germanic to Finn. is a mystery to me; the two other
> logical options seem equally viable.
>
>
> Torsten
>
- - - - - -
The sound laws are not reversible here.
Late NWGmc/Proto-Norse *th is naturally substituted by => Late Proto-
Finnic *t, but
Late Proto-Finnic *t would certainly _NOT_ give PN *th would it?
There is nothing strange about NWGmc/Proto-Norse *X => Late Proto-
Finnic *h , which is implied by Torsten.
Compare the words
haava 'wound' <= *Xawwa- > ON hogg,
hallita (< *halti-) 'to master, to rule' <= *Xaldan 'hold'
hamara 'back of ax, of hammer' <= *Xamara- 'stone, hammer etc.'
haukka (< *havukka) 'falcon' <= *Xabuka-
helppo 'easy; help' <= *Xelpo: 'help; auxiliary'
humala 'hop' < *Xumala(n)- 'hop'
hurskas 'righteous' <= Xurskaz 'wise'
hypätä 'jump' <= *Xuppo:(ja)n or * Xuppjan
and many others
Also Old Swedish /h/ gives Finnish /h/. It is just a matter of
determining when this substitution rule took effect. Obviously it was
sometimes during the NW germanic time, and it was probably due to a
sound development in the receiving language, not in germanic.
hartia of course comes from *Xarthia- not *s-kult-er
Jouppe