Re: Finnish KASKA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Finnish KASKA


> On 2008-02-22 01:08, Patrick Ryan wrote:
>
> > One point I would take up if you feel like pursuing it with me.
> >
> > Thematic vowel reduced to -*i-?
> >
> > So, now the thematic vowel, *A, is realizable as *e, *o, *Ø, AND *i.
> >
> > In my opinion, this is flat-out wrong.
>
> Can a fact be wrong? We often have thematic *-e/o- "replaced" by *-i- in
> compounds, cf. *moi-no- 'exchange' --> *kom-moini- 'common, shared'
> (Lat. communis, PGerm. *Ga-maini-), Lat. arma vs. inermis 'unarmed'.
> What _is_ wrong is the realization of the thematic vowel as zero. This
> never happened in PIE.
>
> Piotr

***

Facts are what you have presented, no doubt. How the facts came to be is the
subject of our difference.

Your second point first:

why should we expect the thematic vowel to ever be *Ø?

the thematic vowel is the result of a shift of stress-accent on *CÁC(V) that
produces *CVCÁ. That does not mean that the stress-accent could not shift
again.

The zero-grade of the Ablautvokal is a result of _no_ stress-accent.

I think PIEists are sometimes suspect of cramming two feet into one shoe.

The Ablautvokal is not known to have an *i-grade anywhere outside of the
thematic vowel position if it have one there. Does that tell us something?
No *CiC except as a zero-grade of *CéiC.

Besides, *e and *o are true vowels. *i is a vocalic allophone of avocalic
*y.

The ugly duckling of Ablaut if he really quacks.

In *kom-moini-, the final -*i is simply the remains of derivational -*y,
also seen in the feminine -*i(H)a(:), or, as you like it -*iH2.


It is undisputed that the zero-grade of *A exists. Since the thematic vowel
originated as a result of stress-accent, it is hardly reasonable for it to
take the form it does in totally unstressed positions.


Patrick