From: Rick McCallister
Message: 53577
Date: 2008-02-17
> You will find the following Finnish words with______________________________________________________________________
> reflexes of IE
> laryngeals in the lexicon under the link below. Most
> of them have
> entered Finnish etymological lexica during the last
> 20 years or so.
> None of them is invented by me:
>
> kalja
> kaski
> lehti
> teke-
> teho
> tehda-s
> tuoda
> tuuli
> kasa
> kalvas/kalpea
> kokea
> rohto
> kesä
> inhi-m-i-
> myy-dä
> nai-nen
> reht-o
> suoni
> suku
> kulke
> kasvaa
>
> It makes 20+ but the list is not exhaustive. There
> are some words
> lacking here that were lost in Finnish or that
> happen to lack
> cognates in English.
>
> Laryngelas were lost in non-Anatolian languages
> before they started
> to be recorded in writing. Judged from this evidence
> they seem to
> have been retained for quite long in
> pre-Balto-Slavic (and pre-
> Germanic??).
>
> I'm not an expert on the accentuation system of
> Balto-Slavic but I
> reacall having read that the effect of laryngeals on
> the syllabic
> structure is traceable in the accentuation of some
> daughter languages
> (Lithuanian?, Slovenian?) even today.
>
> Jouppe
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister
> <gabaroo6958@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for your explanation. I'm intrigued by how
> > kaski ended up with *k-. My impression was that,
> > except for traces in Greek and Armenian,
> non-Anatolian
> > IE lost its laryngeals. Yet, I'm guessing Uralic
> could
> > only have borrowed this word from Germanic,
> > Balto-Slavic, Indo-Iranian or Tokharian. AFAIK,
> there
> > were no other IE languages in the path of Uralic
> > --unless we count Temematic.
> >
> >
> > --- jouppe <jouppe@...> wrote:
> >
> > > In the oldest borrowings in Pre-Finnic it is
> more a
> > > rule than an
> > > exception that the second syllable is more or
> less
> > > dropped as the
> > > lexeme is adopted directly as a plain stem.
> > > Parallels would include
> > > onki, pursi, susi, vuori, vuosi and others.
> > >
> > > I have written about this at
> > > http://koti.welho.com/jschalin/substitutions.htm
> > >
> > > substitution of PIE -zg- by Pre-Finnic -sk- is
> > > parallelled by the PU
> > > word *mos´ki- <= PIE *mozg-.
> > >
> > > The substitution by Pre-Finnic /sh/ (I use the
> > > digraph here) is very
> > > common in later, Proto-Baltic and Proto-German
> > > loans.
> > >
> > > The word kaski also has no real competing
> etymology.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com,
> "fournet.arnaud"
> > > <fournet.arnaud@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > http://koti.welho.com/jschalin/lexicon.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > ashes
> > > > > Fi. kaski 'burnt-over clearing'
> > > > > < PreF *kaski / *kaśki
> > > > >
> > > > > (see) Sw.aska 'ashes' < Gmc. *askōn
> 'ashes'
> > > > > < ↑ PIE/PreG *ħæsk'-
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This individual is comparing Finnish kaski
> to
> > > Gmc
> > > > > *askon
> > > >
> > > > ========================
> > > > Thank you for the link.
> > > > Whatever value it may have,
> > > > it's always interesting to roam thru data.
> > > >
> > > > As far as the *kaski from *askon is concerned,
> > > > Preservation of -s- in Finnish is strange,
> > > > meaning it should be recent (if the idea is
> true)
> > > > Cf. hanhi out of *zhans-is
> > > > Now the final -i- means Finnish borrowed
> *kask-,
> > > > with no -on- ending.
> > > >
> > > > I have much difficulty to believe
> > > > this borrowing *askon > *kask-
> > > >
> > > > I have nothing better to propose
> > > > but I don't buy this story.
> > > >
> > > > Arnaud
> > > > ==================
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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