From: Rick McCallister
Message: 53154
Date: 2008-02-14
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan"____________________________________________________________________________________
> <proto-language@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you very much for information _without_ the
> cake icing.
> >
> > Obviously, there is no way I can immerse myself in
> the latest
> literature
> > which, I have the feeling, you do. But I would
> have thought I would
> have
> > heard of *&.
> >
> > But is this not a real sonor ex machina?
> >
> > The major objection I would have to it (*i, *u,
> *&, *a) is, that to
> my way
> > of thinking, it is asymmetrical: one height level
> for front and back
> but two
> > heights for central.
>
> Actually, it has an unusual degree of symmetry. 4
> vowel systems are
> usually more asymmetric. For yet more examples, we
> have the
> Proto-Austronesian system of /a, e, i, u/, and the
> Cree system, with
> length contrasts, of /a, e, i, o/. Indeed the
> latter system seems
> quite widespread in Canada.
>
> Richard.
>
>
> >
> > Plus, the road by which we get to *& is a little
> circular, I think.
> >
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...>
> > To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:55 AM
> > Subject: Re: [tied] *a/*a: ablaut
> >
> >
> > > Patrick Ryan pisze:
> > >
> > > > Is this pre-PIE fourth vowel [&] generally
> accepted now in PIEist
> > > > circles?
> > >
> > > There isn't much discussion of pre-PIE vowels,
> so it's hard to say if
> > > there is any kind of consensus about the
> "pre-proto" system. I suppose
> > > it's widely accepted that the *e/*o/*zero ablaut
> pattern is derivable
> > > from a single vowel (no matter what its precise
> quality -- *e would do
> > > just as well as *&) and that most *a's, and many
> *o's, are due to the
> > > laryngeal colouring of an original *e. Those who
> believe in a
> > > "fundamental" *a(:) vowel are left with little
> choice. They must
> either
> > > reconstruct a second non-high vowel, lower than
> the first (i.e. an
> *e/*&
> > > : *a contrast) already in pre-PIE, or treat all
> non-laryngeal *a roots
> > > as somehow extraneous (borrowed, onomatopoeic --
> whatever).
> > >
> > > Piotr
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>