--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:
>
> On 2008-02-04 23:15, alexandru_mg3 wrote:
>
> >> The INHERITED words in
> >> Romanian are those of Latin origin.
> >
> > It depends on how you you define Inherited
> >
> > If Spanish is the inherited language of Maya-People,etc.. than
ok...
> > If English is the inherited language of Irish-People than ok...
>
> Any Gaelic words in Hiberno-English or Maya words in Mexican
Spanish are
> loans. Linguistic transmission should not be confused with ethnic,
> cultural or biological continuity.
Correct, from a 'linguistic' point of view is correct: as Romanian
is Latin Language too.
But from an 'ethnic' point of view: the Maya-People are still Maya
despite their 'new loaned' language Spanish
(and I'm faraway to try to use here the 'ethnic' word as a 'pure
race' concept, I use it only as a 'general' reference without any
generalization)
So as in the case of the Maya-People:
=> the Romanians are the Romanized Dacians
> > NEXT: THE MEANINGS OF ALL THE OLD SLAVIC LOANS IN ROMANIAN FITS
> > PERFECTLY THE MEANINGS OF THE ATTESTED OCS WORDS...I DON'T KNOW
ANY
> > COUNTER-EXAMPLE
>
> Of course for obvious historical reasons most Slavic loans in
Romanian
> are of CS origin, but there are other layers of borrowing as well,
> starting from the most archaic loans like <baltã> 'pond' and
<daltã>
> 'chisel', which cannot be CS. The fact that you write something in
block
> capitals doesn't make it an inviolable law.
>
> Piotr
>
(Is you that started first with OBVIOUS, for something taht is farawy
to be OBVIOUS)
Now related to /balta/ and /dalta/
1. /balta/ and /dalta/ ARE BOTH present in Common Romanian and in
Albanian too.
2. NEXT: BOTH can be derived based on Proto-Albanian and based on
Romanian Substratum Rules without any issue directly from PIE
3. NEXT: Can we have words with the same phonetism in PAlb/Dacian?
and Common Slavic around 0-200 AC?
YES WE CAN: ONE CLEAR WORD IS: PIZDA
Slavic pizda <-> PAlb/Dacian *pizda (Romanian pizda /Albanian pidh)
too
Here Albanian dh is the sign that pizda was a Dacian word too, but
even without 'any sign' this doesn't means that the same words with
the same phonetic forms couldn't exist.
4. Do you have a particular reason to reject the 'inherited' path?
You don't.
5. Next, I notify you that there are no remaining time-frames for
your supposed Slavic o > Romanian a <-> Albanian a
5.1 (wikipedia) "During Justinian's reign, the Balkans suffered from
several incursions by the Turkic and Slavic peoples who lived north
of the Danube. Here, Justinian resorted mainly to a combination of
diplomacy and a system of defensive works. In 559 a particularly
dangerous invasion of Sklavinoi and Kutrigurs under their khan
Zabergan threatened Constantinople, but they were repulsed by the
aged general Belisarius."
5.2 Based on this I cannot see any Slavic loan in Balkan Romance and
in Late PAlbanian before 650-700 (50-100 years after the first Slavic
settlements in Balkans is a minimum timeframe that a common sense
will allow us to consider for a loan)
5.3 The split of Common Romanian is in linked with the Slavic
Invasion (570 - 600 AC) and ended around 800 AC
5.4 As result the Oldest Slavic Loans in Common Romanian and I will
add in Old Albanian belong to the '650-800 AC' timeframe
This layer reflects Slavic o/accented > Common Romanian oa (see
below)
kosa > coasa
pola > poala
5.5 Now to put 2 transformations:
1. Slavic o(<a)/accented > Common Romanian a and
2. Slavic o(<a)/accented > Common Romanian oa
in the SAME TIMEFRAME of 150-200 years ... "c'est n'importe quoi"
5.6
I post again for you the Romanian Loan Rules regarding the Slavic o
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"
Now before that you can try again to write /OBVIOUS/ please take a
look on the MAIN LOAN RULES OF SLAVIC o in ROMANIAN
First I assert (together with you) that the value of Slavic o was a
very open one, at that time, having a value very closed to a => but
not quite a for Romanian
Now the rules for you:
a) non-accented Slavic o
==========================
a.1 In the OLDEST wave of Slavic loans
non accented Slavic o was loaned as & in Romanian
--------------------------------------------------
nosilo > n&s&lie
a.2 In the next wave of Slavic loans
non-accented Slavic o remains o in Romanian
---------------------------------------------
kolivo > coliv&
a.3 Slavic final -o passed to & especially to adapt the nouns endings
to Romanian
-----------------------------------------------------------------
sito > sit&
b) accented Slavic o
-------------------------
b.1 In the OLDEST wave of Slavic loans
Slavic accented o passed to oa if e,a,& in the next syllable
--------------------------------------------------------------
or remains o otherwise
---------------------------------------------------------------
pola > poal&
kosa > koas&
In the next(latest) waves of Slavic loans accented o remains o
-----------------------------------------------------------------
klopotU > clopot / clopote (pl.)
Marius
1. So STRAI(pl. STRAIE) doesn't fit any of the above rules....
2. In addition I see no base to reject the link between Alb.
SHTROJ& /PAlb. *STRA:...YA/ 'coverlet, bedspread' with
Romanian /STRAY/ 'clothes'
(once the phonetism is identical and the semantism between the 2
Dacian dialects Romanian-Subtratum and PAlbanian could be sometimes
slightly different)
3. there isn't a South Slavic 'clothes'-meaning in /strojiti/ and we
are talking this time about 'direct loans' and not about the meanings
& the phonetism of the inherited words in 2 dialects that splitted
800-1000 years before the Slavic arrival in Balkans