Re: Brugmann's Law

----- Original Message -----

From: tgpedersen

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:09 PM

Subject: [Courrier indésirable] [tied] Re: Brugmann's Law

--- In cybalist@... s.com, "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@ ...>
wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...>
> To: <cybalist@... s.com>
>
> > On 2008-01-20 15:05, fournet.arnaud wrote:
>
> >> I compare :
> >> Latin lassus to Arabic laghab "to be tired" : hence H2
> >> Latin Lentis to Arabic lax "slow" : hence H1
> =========
> > Then you're guilty of the practice of "reaching down". Before you
> > compare the Latin words with any outgroup material, their status
> > within IE must be established. If IE cognates (in this case,
> > specifically, Germanic *sle:p- and *le:t-) rule out *h2 and
> > suggest *h1, then the PIE reconstruction has *h1, whatever the
> > Arabic facts.
> ============ ===
> I don't feel guilty at all.
> We are talking about methodology.
> I consider that **any** laryngeal in PIE has to be checked against
> PAA data and especially against Arabic.
> There is no **Before**.
> I could answer that "you are guilty of endogamic glottogony".
> But I will not.
> I think "standard" PIE is hard to compare to PAA
> because it is "twisted" in the first place.
> I first compare and then try to understand what's wrong with PIE.
> And I will not change method.
>
> Arnaud
> ===========
> > Latin and Balto-Slavic evidence is ambiguous;
> ========
> All the more reason to look outside PIE.
> Arnaud
> ==========
>
Møller again:
"
2 *al- 'schlaff, schwach' (< voridg. *H.-l-),

+ s- (voridg. intr. H.álas- = semit. H.-l-s-)
idg. áls- (o-stufig ols-),
reduz. l.s- in
lit. alsà 'Müdigkeit', alsùs 'ermüdend', alsìnti 'müde machen',
ilstù 'werde müde', ilsìmas 'Ermüden';

+ p- (< voridg. b-, intr. H.álab-),
sanskr. álpa-, alpaká- 'schwach, gering, klein',
lit. al~pti 'verschmachten, ohnmächtig werden' (wozu Subst. alpimas),
alpnas ,schwach, ohnmächtig', und
idg. l-p-(< voridg. trans. H.aláb-) in
lit. lepùs 'verzärtelt, weichlich';

+ y- idg. l-y- (< voridg. H.aláy- = semit. H.-l-y-, s. u.) in
germ. laisiz > as. le:s ags. læ:s 'weniger'
(oder germ. lais- Reduktion von le:ys- zu
lit. le.´sas (s. u.)'mager'?) ;

+ À- : A.- indg. (= semit. H.-l-A-, s. u.)
intr. *ála-, trans. *lá:- (< H.aláA.-) und lé:- (< H.aláÀ-),
dieses in
ahd. as. la:-ri 'leer',
abulg. le:-nU 'segnis, piger',
+ p- : b- (< voridg. b- : B.-)
gr. alapázo: 'richte zu Grunde',
alapadnós 'schwach',
lap- (Reduktion von la:- oder le:- + p) in
gr. laparós 'mager, eingefallen' ,
mit s-Präformativ (s. Siebs KZ. 37, 294) sl.:p- (l.: < l. + A) in
lit. sìlpti 'schwach werden',
silpnas 'schwach, kraftlos'
(an. slafast 'schlaff werden' < idg. s- + lap-,
oder zu lit. lepùs, s. o., < sl-p-)
:
sla:b- in abulg. sla:bU 'debilis, asthené:s',
sleb- in got. sle:pan ahd. sla:fan 'schlafen',
jenes oder dieses reduz. (slab-) in
nd. nl. slap ahd. slaf 'schlaff',
dazu le:-, reduz. la-
+ y- + s- in lit. lë´sas 'mager', lë´sinti 'mager machen';

= semit. *H.-l-
(assyr. einfach redupl. `-l-l- 'hinfällig sein', ula:lu 'kraftlos,
schwächlich' mit ` < A oder H. ?),

+ s- semit. H.-l-s- in
hebr. H-l-š 'schwach, hinfällig sein',
jüd.-aram. H.alaš 'schwach sein, erschlaffen' ,
syr. Halåšå: 'debilis, vilis, miser',
HalåšuTå: 'debilitas, humilitas',
hebr. Niph. Part. næH.æša:li:m
(l-š umgestellt zu š-l) 'die Schwächlinge, Maroden',
H.aluša: '(Schlappe,) Niederlage',
Halla:š 'Schwächling' (= idg. als-, s.o.);

+ a- hebr. H.-l-A 'schwach, krank sein',
Hiph. HæH.æli:' 'krank machen',
ta-Halu'i:m 'Krankheiten' (= idg. ála- s. o.);

+ y- (= idg. l-y-?)
hebr. Ha:la: 'schwach, kraftlos, krank sein',
Ha.li: 'Krankheit', ma-Ha-læ: 'Krankheit'.
"

Torsten