Re: bitch

From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 51606
Date: 2008-01-20

Well, nothing wagered, nothing won.
 
I shall give my own speculations regarding 'tyke' and 'dyke' without further ado.
 
I hypothesize a PIE **dheigh- meaning 'climb'. We do not find it as an entry in Pokorny per se but we have the s-mobile form in *(s)teigh-, 'climb', which I would emend to *(s)t(h)eigh-.
 
As you know, Torsten, German Zicke means 'bitch' _and_ 'goat', which is normally Ziege, from PIE *digh-.
 
I propose that 'female dog', 'young child', and 'goat', have in common that they are all notable 'climbers': the goat in rocky crags, the female dog on its master's legs (while male dogs cower to show respect), and young children, we know how they love to climb anything.
 
As for a 'dyke', a lesbian playing the masculine role, 'goat' is appropriate since they frequently do not bathe properly to imitate rough-and-ready lower class men. There is nothing quite so unpleasant as an unclean female's genital odor. Thank God bidets are finally starting to come to America. Goats are notoriously bad smelling.
 
I believe 'climber' is a secondary name for the 'goat' whose earliest name was built of the basis of *ka:-, 'intense sexual desire', and found in the derived form *ka(:)p-ro-, 'goat'.
 
Now *digh- implies an earlier **deigh- since *i derives _only_ from avocalic *y.
 
I will not invoke 'taboo deformation' but I think the possibility exists that this word occurred in an IE dialect that, like Greek, did not tolerate two voiced aspirates in the same root. If *dheigh- occurred in such a dialect, it might have become *deigh-, and the stress-accent accounts for *digh-.
 
*digh-, of course, yields Ziege.
 
To account for Zicke, we might think roughly in terms of expressive gemination; or we may entertain the idea that *digh could become *dig purely internally. I will no bore with details but I believe I have discovered that PIE final *bh/*dh/*gh, that derive from pre-PIE *P?FA/T?SA/K?XA, are peculiarly liable to lose aspiratin, and become *b/*d/*g.
 
This (PIE **dheigh-, 'climb') derives from a fairly well-distributed root, appearing in Egyptian as 'H('), 'raise, rise' (which pictures a ladder), and s'H, 'exalt, raise up', which has a goat  as a determinative. There is also Sumerian zig, 'rise, raise up'.
 
Could this be a loan? Of course, but the basic word is IE, and the loan would be from a non-standard dialect of IE not some mysterious substrate of uncertain affiliation.
 
'dyke', then, as perhaps a derogatory term for 'goat', would derive from *dheig- - another way of resolving the unacceptable two voiced aspirates.
 
There are so many variables here that certainty is elusive but I am hoping the speculation may be of some interest.
 
 
Patrick
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: bitch

Maybe you are thinking of a different message. Zicke is not mentioned in the one you linked below.
 
Patrick
 
----- Original Message -----
From: tgpedersen
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 3:09 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: bitch


> > > Is this Sw. tik "bitch"?
> > > Cf.
> > > Kuhn, Fremder t-Anlaut im Germanischen
> > > "
> > > 17. ti:k- (und tu:k-?) 'Hündin', in an. tík und
> > > hd. m(und)a(rt)l.
> > > Zauche / Zauck, wenn aus tu:k-.
> > > "
> > >
> > > So a substrate word (like all roots in Germanic in TVT- where
> > > T = unvoiced stop, since PIE has no roots *DVD- where D =
> > > voiced stop)
>
> And so, how do you fit Zicke into this scheme?

Yes, it does. Cf. Kuhn's remarks in
http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/51569

Torsten