Re: Bird (was: Renfrew's theory renamed as Vasco-Caucasian)

From: tgpedersen
Message: 51498
Date: 2008-01-19

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@> wrote:
> >
> > At 3:19:16 AM on Saturday, September 22, 2007,
> > fournet.arnaud wrote:
> >
> > > What is your own explanation ?
> >
> > For OE <brid(d)>? I have none: I've never seen a concrete
> > explanation that was at all convincing. And I consider an
> > admission that we don't know far preferable to a highly
> > implausible explanation.
>
> Here's my explanation (simplified to be more like standard, thus
> leaving some parts out). See some of my previous descriptions for more.
>
>
> *ptero+ 'wing'
> *pteryo+ 'at/on/in wing'
>
> *petno+ 'feather'
> *petnyo+ 'at/on/in feather'
>
> like:
>
> *kY(e)rd 'heart'
> *kY(e)rdi 'at/on/in heart'
>
>
> *ekYspteryó/ekYspetnyó+ 'out from under wing'
> *ekYspteryó/ekYspetnyó+s 'fledgling'
>
>
> From PIE to:
>
> *ekYspetnyó+ > *essidnyo+ > *essi:ne/isse:ne > MIr essíne, Gaelic
> isean 'young bird, chicken'
>
>
> *ekYspteryó+
> *ekYpteryó+
> *ekYpretyó+
> *epretyó+
> *ephrethyó+
> *ebhredhyó+
> *ebredyó+
> *ebredyá+
> *ibridyá+
> *bridyá+
>
> OE bridd / bird 'young bird, chicken'
>

This is easier: from some substrate with p,t > bh,dh (> b,d in Germanic)
*bed-ro- > *bred-ro- > bridd

Actually Holzer claims to have found *bedro "feather, wing"
(supposedly < PIE *pet-ro) in his Temematic substrate in Slavic, cf
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/32179
namely in names of certain plants (with composite, 'gefiederte'
leaves) and insects.

He also lists bedro "thigh" as a temematic word (supposedly <
*ped-ro). I wonder if they are the same word and related to *p-t-
"open up"? Møller does list that *p-t- with Semitic cognates.
Following his own rules for accounting for 'Noreen alternation'
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/27999
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/47591
one could set up a root *bhedh- alternating with *pet-, and then there
would be no need for a Temematic substrate; some of Holzer's Temematic
words have strange Noreen alternations in Germanic too, ie.
PIE pork^o- vs. Du. varken, Ger. Verkel, Gothic barg-s "pig"


Torsten