Re: Sard

What a shame Møller was not aware that outside of IE and Semitic the vowels that could differentiate among the various words he transcribed by default as s-r were available.

The word for 'son' is properly z3 not s3 (no problem, the Egyptians mixed up s/z themselves), and designates the son as 'seed/semen'; z3 is formally equivalent to Semitic z-r. We also have Sumerian e/i, 'seed', and e/ir, 'testicle'. I think it is fairly obvious that Semitic z-r is cognate with IE *ser-, 'flow rapidly, *ejaculate). On the basis of Egyptian z, which narrow the choice to se/i or sa (Egyptian s would be so/u) and Sumerian which should reflect se/i, we can say with some probability that the word began with the syllable SE (as opposed to SHE), to which I have assigned the meaning of '(emit) bodily fluids'. On the basis of IE *stre:-, because of the long vowel, I reconstruct RHE (aspirated nasals and R could lengthen the following vowel): SE-RHE, 'bodily fluids-fall down', a fairly accurate characterization of ejaculation. As additional proof, we know that z3 was vocalized as /si/ by the cuneiform transcriptions of Egyptian names.

Torsten, I think we all appreciate your bring us Møller's work. I am wondering: have you transcribed his book into a text file?

Patrick

----- Original Message -----

From: tgpedersen

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:35 AM

Subject: Re: [tied] Sard

--- In cybalist@... s.com, "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Even more obviously
> Egyptian has s_3 "son"
> If we posit *s_r "to generate, to copulate"
> Maybe it makes sense to relate it to *ser-
>

Hermann Møller: Vergleichendes indogermanisch- semitisches Wörterbuch:
"
2 s-rt- intr. 'coire cum femina',
ags. serðan an. serda 'coire' mhd. serten 'stuprare'
(< voridg. intr. zárad-, Erweiterung von *z-r- > idg. 6 s-r-)
=
semit. z-r-d- in arab. zarada:nun 'vulva'.
Wegen der Bedeutung vgl.
idg. 2 sr-w- (s. d.) und
semit. z-r-A, z-r-Y.-, z-r-m-,
Erweiterungen von *z-r-
= idg. 6 s-r- (s. d.).
...
2 sr-w- in
ags. strienan, stre:nan 'gignere liberos'
= 6 s-r- (< voridg. z-r-) + w- < voridg. w- oder p-.
Im letzteren Falle, wenn sr-w- < voridg. trans. zaráp- entspricht
...
6 *s-r- 'streuen, ausgießen, säen' (< voridg. z-r-)
in den Erweiterungen 2 s-rt-, 2 sr-w-
und vielleicht 1 sr-w-, 1 s-r-p-,
= semit. *z-r- 'streuen, ausgießen, säen',
+ k.-
hebr. zārak. 'streuen (Staub, Samen u.a.), sprengen (Wasser, Blut)',
neuhebr. 'werfen, Blut an den Altar schwenken (schütten)',
syr. zerak. 'sparsit', Pa. Aph. 'dispersit', jüd.-aram. zerak.
'streuen, werfen, schwenken (schütten)', Pa. 'hinwerfen',
hebr. mizra:k. 'Gefäß aus dem gesprengt wird',
neuhebr. 'Schwenkschale'
jüd.-aram. mizrek.a: dass.,
assyr. zara:k.u (Präs. izarik., Prät. izrik.)
'sprengen (von Flüssigkeiten) '1),
arab. zarak.a 'stercus excrevit (avis)';
+ p- syr. zeraP 'sparsit', zeriPtå: 'imber vehemens';
+ b- s. 1 s-r-p-;
+ m- [: b-, vgl. SI. 761]
hebr. Po. 'ausgießen' (von den Wolken),
z`æræm 'starker Regen',
jüd.-aram. (targ.) zera:mi:T(a: )'Unwetter' ,
hebr. zirma: 'Samenerguss' (vom Hengste):
+ A-
äthiop. zar`a 'semen spargere, serere, fecundare',
zar` 'semen, sperma,
+ Y.- gemeinsemit.
z-r-Y.-, Perf. arab. zaraY.a äthiop. zar3a
hebr. za:ra3 aram. syr. zera3 'sevit, seminavit',
hebr. Niph. 'befruchtet werden' (neuhebr. 'besät werden'),
Hiph. 'Samen hervorbringen' (auch vom Weibe),
neuhebr. Hiph. '(beim Coitus) Samen auswerfen',
arab. zarY.un assyr. ze:ru
hebr. z`æra3 'seed, seminal fluid, offspring, child, children',
bibl.-aram. zera3 'Same, Geschlecht',
syr. zar3å: 'semen', Plur. 'posteri',
assyr. za:ru: 'Erzeuger', ze:rtu 'Abkömmling'.

1) Assyr. hebr. z-r-k.- könnten auch < semit. ð-r-k.- sein (s. idg.
st-r-), doch ist das hebr. Wort wegen der genauen aram. Entsprechung
und das assyr. Verb wegen der Übereinstimmung mit dem hebr.
hierhergestellt; ebenso unten das äthiop. zar`a (das = arab. ðara`a
sein könnte, s. st-r-) wegen seiner Bedeutung (zar` 'sperma, proles').
proles';
"

to which I think I'll add Dutch 'stront' "sh*t" ("manure", it's all
about fertilization anyway), and without s-mobile (cf.
http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/28499
) and with Noreen-alternation (
http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/27999
http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/47591
, here t- vs. dh-) German Dreck, No. dritt "dirt, faeces".

cf.
http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/46226

It's tempting to see in the place names of the type -strut, -strother
http://tinyurl. com/2xfvbo
something to do with "planted field" or the like? The distribution of
the placename looks like nothing that has to do with Germania in
historical or immediately pre-historical time. Neither does -werd(er)
http://tinyurl. com/2hjcyw
which stretches east beyond the Oder-Neisse, unlike most of Udolph's
placename suffixes.

The two placename suffixes shares two properties
1) they interact with an 'extra' suffix -er (as in the pre-Saami
substrate)
2) for both a Semitic cognate has been proposed (actually for the
Germanic verb *werd- "defend", but it makes send to see that verb in
the placenames too, which designate islands between arms of rivers.

Torsten