Re: Helios

From: fournet.arnaud
Message: 51107
Date: 2008-01-06

The proto-phoneme -m?- in Root *s_m? "sun"
is interesting for two other reasons.
It is linked with the issue of glottalization in PIE.
 
As can be seen in message 34760,
some languages have s_H2w- some have s_wH2.
This is not a metathesis of two components H2 + W.
Western PIE (italic + celtic) had post-glottalization
and consequently : m? > w?
Central and eastern PIE had pre-glottalization
hence m? > ?w.
I am highly skeptical about something like **sH2w,
with no vowel : it must be either s°?w or sw :
I can't see how [?] could be kept between s and w.
 
The other issue is : what happens when glottal stop is followed
by a voiceless stop :
As a rule :
Celtic has a geminate : ? + k > -kk-
Latin has : long vowel + k-
Others : ?+k = g
(Germanic sides eastern as usual : ?+k > g > k)
A good example is *bh_lH2-k "pillar, beam" to build houses or boats.
LAtin ful-k-rum
Germanic bal-k- < bolg
Greek phalang-
Etc
 
Another interesting case is : Germanic ku-tya "kite" milvus-bird
Starting with Latin aqui-la "eagle" < H2_kw-
Hence Germanic ?kw- > ku-
The rule works for initials too.
 
Another collateral damage is that this language of geminate is nothing but
Celtic. The so called expressive gemination does not exist.
It is a phonological rule : ? + k / t / p > Celtic kk tt pp.
We just do not need a language of geminate
and other substrate obsessions of that kind.
Good old PIE and Celtic are enough to explain everything.
 
Arnaud
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: afyangh
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 7:11 PM
Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re: [tied] Helios


=======
Arnaud
If one starts with *s-m?- "sun"
as I have suggested,
with the unconditionned : m? > w/H2w/wH2
or assimilation m?-t > nt
then *sunthra is from s°m?-tro
and the nasal is not a suffix but part of the root.
I hadn't thought about this word southern
but it confirms my analysis that
a certain number of PIE *w are from *m?-.

Arnaud