Re: Anser (was: swallow vs. nighingale)

----- Original Message -----

From: Patrick Ryan

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:53 PM

Subject: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs. nighingale)

Fournet:

 

I am not sure what you mean by a "super-cognate" but *p_l is, most certainly, not one.

 

If we look to languages like KhoiSan, for example, we should _not_ expect to find roots of the form *CVC which correspond with PAA (and through it, PIE) and Sino-Caucasian roots. KhoiSan broke away too early for *CVCV stems to have been formulated. The best we might be able to do is find simple monosyllables with a fairly straightforward meaning like **ma: (from *MHA), 'ripe and full', that are only an element in *CVC roots.

 

With PAA (especially Semitic) and PIE, which were in contact, we might be able to find a few *CVCC correspondences but supposing that "Hafil" corresponds to PIE *pleH- is amateurish. The PAA biliteral roots that developed into triliteral roots did not do so by prefixing H but rather by suffixation and gemination. If you do not (apparently) know this, you should read up on the subject before recklessly tossing out obvious nonsensicalities.

 

As it happens, there is an Arabic word which in one of its stem forms _may_ possibly be compared with PIE *pleH-, namely ?aflaHa, 'prosperous' /fala:H-un, 'prosperity' , by way of 'provided with abundance/fullness' . The root here, for your instruction, is f-l-H.

 

There is no "H1" in Egyptian, hieroglyphic or otherwise. In any case, if there were really an Egyptian cognate of *pel(H)-, it would appear in Egyptian as *fn(j).

 

There is, in fact, a cognate with the root of PIE *pne-u-: fn, 'pant, be weak'; and fnD, 'nose'.

 

 

Patrick Ryan

 

----- Original Message -----

From: fournet.arnaud

To: cybalist@... s.com

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:36 PM

Subject: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs. nighingale)

 

----- Original Message -----

From: tgpedersen

To: cybalist@... s.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 10:48 AM

Subject: [Courrier indésirable] [Courrier indésirable] Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs. nighingale)

> > A.F :
> > > pling : full => Cf. PIE pel(H1/w)
> > > It is quite clear that these words are cognates not loanwords.
> > > They had more than one syllable in ST before the "crunch".
==
 I think they are borrowed either into both Old Chinese and
PIE from some unrelated language geographically in between them, or
into PIE from some early predecessor of Chinese.

Torsten

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A.F

What about :

Yukaghir pojo- : a lot (l > yod is regular in Siberian languages)

Niger Touareg : balal : full, abundant (this language has no b/p contrast)

Arabic : Hafil : full (note that H1 is initial in Arabic not final : pel-H1-)

Hieroglyphic Egyptian (with vowels) : Hipu:lil : abondant (H1 initial)

 

There is no alternative to super-cognate status for root *p_l : full, abundant.

 

NB : Uralic forms pal/pol are tainted by PIE and I disagree they may be cognates.

They are at best cognates, secondarily tainted by IE words, or IE loanwords.

Arnaud

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