Re: Anser (was: swallow vs. nighingale)

----- Original Message -----

From: Richard Wordingham

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:12 AM

Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs. nighingale)

Incidentally, are you and Arnaud paying attention to the Chinese tone
correspondences? Thus the 'calf' word (U+4414) Mandarin bin4,
Cantonese baan3 must derive from Middle Chinese *p rather than *b (or
*bH if you prefer), but the 'thigh' word (U+9AC0) Mandarin bi4
Cantonese bei2 makes no sense - unless of course there is a typo in
what I am using for a Cantonese dictionary.

Richard.
===========

A.F to Richard

Do you have the form of bin4 "knee-cap" and bi4 "thigh" ?

in any of Shanghai, WenZhou, HaiKou, XiaMen, JianOu, FuZhou ?

Using the PinYin convention p = unvoiced aspirated ; b = unvoiced, bb = voiced

and tone pattern written with 1 (low) 2 3 4 5 (high) ?

My hypothesis is that Bin4 is a suffixed form of bi4, : BJ bin31 < [patin] (2 syllables) and BJ bi31 < [pat-s] (one syllable).

Cantonese bei2 with rising tone can hardly have connection with bi4 falling tone.

Character: 髀

Modern (Beijing) reading: bì 

Starostin comments :

Also read *bēʔ, MC bíej, Mand. bì id. Standard Sino-Viet. readings are tỳ (for MC pjé, with an irregular tone) and be^̃ (for MC bíej). Viet. ve^́ may in fact reflect VM *C-pelʔ (PAA *pVr 'thigh') in which case it has nothing to do with Chinese.

A.F : Two roots are interfering in BJ bi31 and GD bei53 ?

GD should be bei33 ?

Looking forward to your reply.

Arnaud

===================