Re: Roe and cow (was: Slavic KYa(K))

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Grzegorz Jagodzinski"
<grzegorj2000@...> wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: stlatos
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Slavic KYa(K)
>
>
> >> 16. *korva "cow", note *sUrna "roe-deer";
>
> > There's no reason these two need to be connected. *korwa:x shows k-
> > everywhere.
>
> There are two reasons.
>
> The first reason is of semantic nature, both names can be derived

from the

> original meaning "horned animal", see Greek kera(w)ós "horned".

I agree some words from *kYer-x were applied to both deer and cows but:

> The second reason is that the phonetic structures of both words are

enough

> similar, and that differences are insufficient to see 2 different roots
> here.

From looking at keraós and krava alone, I wouldn't pick out two
roots. However, two are well attested elsewhere in many words:
*kYer-x+ 'extend out' and *kar(t.)+ 'bend, etc.'. Probably
distinguishing between antlers and the curving horns in this case.

> Besides k ~ s, we have or / Ur variation here.

Since there's both r.>ur and e>a here, an initial k- seems most likely.

> A trace of Slav. *kUrvU is
> probably Old Polish karw "ox"

Yes, I agree. But it's exactly this that makes a connection with
*kYer-x+ unlikely: *kYer-x+, etc., show words with opt. e
(*kY(e)rNgo+, *kY(e)r-x-sron.+, *kY(e)r-u-ro+s); so the opt. V in
'cow' is probably a (from e by K).

*kar()wa:x ... *kr,()wos
*karwa: ...... *kurwos
krava ........ curvis, karw

However, from *kYer-x+:

*kYer-u-ros /or/ *kYr,-u-ros
*kYer-u-os ..... *kYr,-u-os
*kYer-wos ...... *kYr,-wos
*kYer-wos ...... *kYir-wos
cervus ......... sirvis, carw

If *s^irna is connected with Greek kárnos 'ram' then their origin
would probably be:

*kY(e)rNgo+ 'horn' >> *kY(e)rNgen.o+ 'horned'

*kYr,Ngen.o+
*kYr,Ngn.o+
*kYr,Nn.o+ (N>0 in G; rN>r: in Baltic)

Which would be needed to explain G -ar- not -ra:- if it were more
directly related to *kYer-x+. The initial accent in G (to my mind)
also shows an original 3-syllable word > 2 in PIE.

> Note also the intonation. Greek keraós and Slavic *kórva (acuted,

cf. Russ.

> koróva) point at IE *k^erH- ~ *k^orH-. Both Lith. st`irna and kárve.

also

> point at *k^VrH-

The B-Sl tones might indicated a compound:

*kert.kYer-x-wo+ 'bent-horned'
*kerkYer-x-wo+
*ker-x-wo+ (haplology)
*kar-x-wo+

This would be simlar to the origin of 'turtle, lobster, etc.'

*kampkart.o+ /or/
*kampkaro+ 'hard dome/shell'
*kamkaro+
*kam_aro+ (k-k dissim.)
*kam(m)aro+

the acute

> intonation which suggests that *kórva = Lith. kárve. is inherited

(and shows

> "irregular" kentumization).

But Baltic doesn't usually show apparently irregular KY>K in the
same place as Slavic, let alone Albanian (ka-u). It seems most likely
k- was original.