--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
<akonushevci@...> wrote:
>
> b/m alternation in anlaut, inlaut and auslaut and not p:m, as some
of
> our linguist declares and thinks, not knowing for -pn- > -m- change
in
> many inherited words, is evident in a number of words not only in
> Thracian, like: Abydon :Amydon, Andrabus : Andramus, Bargos :
Margos,
> Basteira: Masteira, Bendis : Mendis, Doberos : Domerus, Serbolia :
> Sermulia, Tibiskos : Timesis (R. Katiçiq, "Ancient Languages of the
> Balkans", Mouton, 1976, p. 144), but also in a number of words of
> Illyrian and Albanian, like: Abantia : Amantia (cf. Alb amë 'river'
<
> ap-no, attested also in river name Amar and Amana), Bathis (in
> Dalmatia) : Mathis (river name Mat in Albania; cf. Alb mat 'river
> bank'), Bardhylis : Mardhylis (royal name, probably related to Alb
> bardhë 'white'), Albena : Almena (Hahn), but as well in bush : gë-
> mushë 'bush' < *bhu-s(a:), zero-grade form of *bheuH- 'to be, exist;
> grow'. I think that this characteristic feature speaks in favor of
> opinion that Illyrian and Thracian makes one group of Old Balkans
> languages.
> Any comment?
>
> Konushevci
1. I'm not able to comment on the etymology of Thracian and Illyrian
examples, for some of them I have some doubts that they represent one
and the same word (but I agree that we could have m <-> b there
too...)
2. My opinion is that there was an /mB/ sound in Dacian that well
explains the m/b attested alternations :
-> Ancient attested Mousaios/Mouseios was probably pronounced by
the local population /*mBudZeus/ becaused it arrived to be /Buz&u/ in
Romanian
-> Ancient attested Tibisis (Herodotus) (< PIE *tibH-isis), later
attested Tibisia (at Iordanes), was probably pronounced by the local
population /*TimBisja/ because it arrived to be /Timish/ in Romanian
Note-1: As I already said on this forum Latin Tiberis (< PIE *tibH-
esis) is a closer cognate with Dacian Tibisis (Herodotus) (< PIE
*tibH-isis)
3. mB is not m+b : the mB cluster forms one unit of sound (for this
reason I used B as for 'our' W and H in kW gH)
As I know mB is not recognize as a distinct IPA sound (I don't
know why): can somebody here to confirm or infirm this?
4. This ancient /mB/ was preserved till today, in Albanian (in some
contexts) : see Albanian shkrumb ,
5. but was (later) reduced in Romanian -> see Romanian scrum
For this reason, for me, as Romanian, is impossible today to
pronounced /mB/ :)
6. Note: The current explanation for Albanian is that m > mb is a
later apparition.
Based on what I presented here, this /mB/ belongs in fact to some
ancient Proto-Albanian/Dacian Times
7. The context that has triggered the aparition of /mB/ sound in
Dacian(/Romanian-Substratum/PAlbanian) 'seems' to be the vicinity of
{u,i}
I say 'seems' because I didn't check systematically all the
occurences, but this is 'my curent model':
the following examples fits well this model:
Romanian scrum/ Albanian shkrumb
*TimBisja (Tibisis,Tibisia) > Romanian /Timish/
*mBudzeus (Mousaios) > Romanian /Buz&u/
8. Next, it 'seems' that Romanian has later reduced the /mB/ sound
either to m or to b:
a) the mB was reduced to m in i-contexts :
*TimBisja -> Timish
b)the mB was reduced to b in u-Contexts :
-> *mBudZeus > Buz&au
-> Rom. scrum (Alb. shkrumb) < *skrumB
Marius
A.
/Buz&w/ -> Wikipedia (I couldn't find 'the letter' on internet)
First recorded historical attestation
The earliest mention on the river Buzãu and the polis (named
Mousaios) on its bank is a letter from Ioannis Soranus, governor of
Scytia Minor, to the archbishop of Caesarea Mazaca (about 400 A.D.).
The document, kept in copies at the Vatican Library and San Marco
Library in Venice, tells about the martyrdom of a Christian
missionary by the name of Sabbas, drowned by the Goths in the river
Buzãu. He is the spiritual patron of the city of Buzãu as well as of
several local villages.
B.
/Herodotus/
These are the native Scythian rivers which join to swell its stream,
while from the Agathyrsians flows the Maris and joins the Ister, and
from the summits of Haimos flow three other great rivers towards the
North Wind and fall into it, namely Atlas and Auras and Tibisis.
url:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hh/hh4040.htm
C.
Sabbas the Goth ('Sf. Sava Gotul' in Romanian)
----------------------------------------------
'His dead circumstances 'gave us' the first attested of the Buz&u
River'
from WIKIPEDIA
Born 341[citation needed], Buzãu river valley, Romania
Died 372, Buzãu river valley, Romania
Venerated in Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodox Church, Roman
Catholic Church
Feast 12 April
Saints Portal
Sabbas (Sava, Saba, or Savva) the Goth, also known as Sava the
Romanian, is the earliest known native-born martyr on Romanian soil.
Biography
He was born in 334 to Christian parents in a village in the Buzãu
river valley and lived in Wallachia in what is now Romania. His Act
of Martyrdom states that he was a Goth by race. He may have been a
cantor or a reader reader there.
In the year 371, a Gothic ruler started repressing Christianity in
his area. When his agents came to the village where Sabbas lived,
they forced the villagers to eat sacrificial meat. Pagan villagers
wanting to help their Christian neighbours had tricked the
authorities by exchanging the sacrificial meat by meat that had not
been sacrificed. However, Sabbas made a conspicuous show a rejecting
the meat altogether. His fellow villagers then exiled him, but after
a while he was allowed back. When the Gothic noble returned and asked
if there were any Christians about, Sabbas stepped forward and
said, "'Let no-one swear an oath on my behalf. I am a Christian."
Sabbas neighbours then said that he was a poor man of no account. The
leader then dismissed him, saying, "This one can do us neither good
nor harm."
The next year (372),[1] Sabbas celebrated Easter with the priest
Sansalas. Someone reported this, and three days after Easter
Atharidus, the son of the Gothic king Rothesteus arrived in the
village to arrest Sansalas and take him to higher authorities.
Sabbas, however, was tortured on the spot. They dragged Sabbas naked
through thorn bushes, bound him and the priest to trees and forced
them to eat food that had been sacrificed to idols. Both men refused
to touch the meat.
The pagan Gothic prince Athanaric, at war with Emperor Valens of Rome,
[dubious discuss] sentenced Sabbas to death, and he went off with
the soldiers praising God the whole way, denouncing the pagan and
idolatrous ways of his captors and scorning them. The commander
ordered Sabbas to be thrown in a river, tying a rock around his neck
and his body to a wooden pole.
His relics were taken by St Sansala and hidden by the Christians
until they could be sent for safety to the Roman Empire. Here they
were received by Bishop Ascholius of Thessalonica.
Basil the Great requested of the ruler of Scythia Minor, Junius
Soranus, that he should send him the relics of saints and so the
Dacian priests sent the relics of Sabbas to him in Caesarea,
Cappadocia, in 373 or 374 accompanied by a letter, the 'Epistle of
the Church of God in Gothia to the Church of God located in
Cappadocia and to all the Local Churches of the Holy Universal
Church'. This letter is the oldest known writing to be composed on
Romanian soil and was written in Greek, possibly by St Vetranion of
Tomis.
In response Basil replied with two letters to Bishop Ascholius where
he extolled the virtues of Sabbas calling him an 'athlete of Christ'
and 'Martyr for the truth'.
His feast day is on the date of his martyrdom, April 12. The Eastern
Orthodox Church commemorates him as "the holy, glorious, and right-
victorious Great-martyr Sabbas."
Martyred in the reign of Valentinian and Valens, he is commemorated
on April 12 in the Eastern Orthodox Churches and April 14 in the
Roman Martyrology.