Re: [tied] Re: Renfrew's theory renamed as Vasco-Caucasian

----- Original Message -----

From: michelmrvn

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:45 PM

Subject: [Courrier indésirable] [tied] Re: Renfrew's theory renamed as Vasco-Caucasian

--- In cybalist@... s.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@ ...>
wrote:
>
> So when do you think the Saami began speaking Uralic
> and the Finns moved into Finland?
> Saami, supposedly has 25% pre-Uralic substrate and I
> have no clue about any substrate in Finnish.
> I've always wondered about shared substrate among
> Germanic, Saami, Balto-Finnic and Baltic --but none of
> you will get up off your duffs and figure it out for
> me.
>

===============

A.F

I'm afraid this 25% number makes little sense.

Each proto-Uralic word is usually shared by less than 50% of Uralic languages,

Most often less that 30%.

and more than 50% words of each Uralic language is not ascribable to proto-Uralic.

So I do not know what this ""25%"" ""substrate"" means.

(My point of view : most probably Nothing at all).

=================

Some people think that the pre-Uralic substrate of the Saami was some
language akin to basque. As a specialist of basque, I can only give
some possible links: saami garrat "hard, rough"/basque garrats "id.".
Numbers eight and nine are two to ten and one to ten in basque also,
but this is also true for finnish. The end of eight and nine in saami
is -ci IIRC and in basque -tzi (zortzi, bederatzi) where -ci/-tzi
might mean "ten", but this morpheme has been also compared with
caucasian.

Michel.

================

A.F

So, it is great news that we have a specialist of basque in town.

Note that both saami garrat "hard, rough"/basque garrats have the same phonetic structure as the word hard itself : velar + a + rhotic + dental.

What do you think about :

Basque : hiru : "three"

Ungarian : ha:rom : "three".

=============

> --- "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@ ...>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rick McCallister
> > To: cybalist@... s.com
> > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 8:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Renfrew's theory renamed
> > as Vasco-Caucasian
> >
> >
> > Actually Scandinvia & W Baltic: Sweden, Denmark,
> > Lower
> > Saxony, Pomorze --Jastorf, right?
> > Germanic began to split up sometime around 500 BC,
> > right?
> > And it spread out from there, right?
> > In (continental) Scandinavia, the previous
> > inhabitants
> > spoke Uralic, namely Saami (and Finnish in
> > Finland),
> > right?
> >
> > ============ ========= =======
> >
> > A.F
> >
> > Germanic reached Scandinavia BEFORE (Western)
> > Uralic.
> >
> > And I think Germanic split much earlier than 500
> > BC,
> >
> > English and German were different languages as
> > early as - 2500,
> >
> > if you recalibrate glottochronology erosion rate,
> > to avoid having French and Italian split as late as
> > in the XV century.
> >
> > (obviously absurd : Standard erosion rate is too
> > fast
> >
> > It has to be slowed down and the result is that
> > language splits are pushed into the past)
> >
> > ============ ========= =====
> >
> >
> > And who knows what they spoke in Denmark and
> > Pomorze,
> > right?
> > Maybe "Folkish"?, maybe "Apple language", who
> > knows,
> > right?
> >
> > --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > > --- In cybalist@... s.com, Rick
> > McCallister
> > > <gabaroo6958@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No one says that Scandinavia was the original
> > > homeland
> > > > of Germanic --just that it was centered there
> > and
> > > the
> > > > NW Baltic
> > >
> > > Why 'centered' there? Where exactly is the 'NW
> > > Baltic'?
> > >
> > > > c. 500 BCE.
> > >
> > > Why 500 BCE?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Before that, well, probably present Saxony and
> > > Poland.
> > > > Regarding Uralic lexicon --look at Scandinavia
> > and
> > > the
> > > > N. Baltic, who else besides Germanics live
> > there?
> > >
> > > Is this 'N. Baltic' = your previous 'NW Baltic',
> > and
> > > if not, where is it?
> > >
> > >
> > > Torsten
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel
> > answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers -
> > Check it out.
> >
> >
> http://answers. yahoo.com/ dir/?link= list&sid= 396545469
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
____________ __
> Got a little couch potato?
> Check out fun summer activities for kids.
> http://search. yahoo.com/ search?
fr=oni_on_mail& p=summer+ activities+ for+kids& cs=bz
>