Okay, so far we have
Scandinavian --possible minimal Saami, and possible
pre-Uralic substrate. Given that Runic looks (to my
ignorant view) a whole lot like Scandinavian, any
substrate influences germane to only Scandinavian are
probably minimal. So look at the possibility that
Germanic (as a whole) may have been "bottled up" in
Scandinavian for a while and then expanded out
Low German, NW Gmc --possible Begic substrate
High German--probable Celtic substrate
But I think we have to speak of a "dynamic" mobile
homeland that slowly drifted toward Germany and
Scandinavia instead of saying Germanic was born and
formed in X.
Perhaps there was a trajectory and it's more a act of
plotting points along a line of movement at certain
points in time. IF this is true, we need to take
account who else was also moving along.
If we look at it from this perspective, perhaps we're
all correct, or maybe none of us is.
One scenario could be that Gmc drifted to the NW from
Ukraine, the plains between the Black & Caspian or
wherever with Balto-Slavic to the E of it, Celtic and
Italic to the SW, Indo-Iranian to the S or SE, and
Uralic to the N. So when? 3000-2000 BCE?
Gmc drifts NW toward S Poland and eventually to the W
Baltic & Scandinavia. When does it get there? 1000-500
BC?
So does the split between W & E Gmc occur somewhere
when they reach the Oder valley-Pomerania (Pomorze)?
If so, there are probably some runes lying under
Piotr's backyard.
Celtic and Italic drift W with Celtic to the W of
Italic, with Celtic maybe in Bavaria & Bohemia and
Italic maybe in Hungary
OR perhaps it was the Celtic expansion that pushed Gmc
up into Scandinavia & the Baltic
OR perhaps both are true, maybe the Celtic expansion
just pushed along a phenomenon already in movement
--- tgpedersen <
tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister
> <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:
> > --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> >
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick
> McCallister
> > > <gabaroo6958@> wrote:
> > [snip]
> It is generally recognized that Runic is close to
> Proto-Germanic.
> Runic is sometimes referred to as a koine, ie. a
> common upper class
> languager. If so, the differences are due to the
> substrate.
>
>
> > Also remember that Germanic was in contact with
> Celtic
> > and, before that, Italic for quite a while.
>
> Or some ancestor of it.
>
>
> > So I'd guess c. 2000 BC somewhere in Upper Saxony,
> > Silesia, maybe Slovakia and possibly up to the
> Baltic,
> > if one postulates that Baltic was following from
> the
> > East, and Celtic & Italic to the S and SE
> > Then 1000-500 BC N Germany
>
> You really want to place Germanic in Germania, don't
> you?
> I'd better upload some more maps.
>
>
[snip]
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