[tied] Re: *-t-, put

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:

>
> On 2007-07-09 17:20, tgpedersen wrote:
>
> > Second weak conjugation: Gothic salbo:-da < PIE *salbax-dho:;
> > where -ax is the individuating suffix. Look, Ma, no *-tó-!
>
> The past participle is Goth. salboþs < *salBo:-ða-z < *solpah2-tó-s,
> the normal deverbal adjective (cf. Lat. -a:tus) associated with
> *solpah2-jé/ó- 'anoint', a denominative verb from the _noun_
> *solpáh2 'ointment' with cognates in several branches, e.g. Skt.
> sarpí- 'ghee'.

So it is. And?

> (Far from being an 'individuating suffix', *-ah2 has its more usual
> collective significance here.)

The collective it forms is an individual, which is why it takes verbal
3sg in some languages.

> In order to form a periphrastic preterite, the Proto-Germani took
> the participle and added the imperfect of 'to do/make/put':
> *salBo:ða- ðiðe: '(he) made (it) anointed'.

In which way imperfect? Jens calls it a present.

> Then the auxiliary was _almost_ dropped, leaving only a symbolic
> trace of its presence (with more substance in the plural than in the
> singular) but retaining the personal ending.

Please snap out of Miguel mode. The reason I present this solution
which I've done before is not that I haven't understood the
traditional one.

> You would have to try really hard to come up with a more logical
> story.

So you're not convinced; fair enough. Do you have any reason why my
proposal won't work?

> >>> I think it's *frawarði- ðða: > *frawarðiðe: (Goth. frawardida)
> >>> *frawarði- ðe:ðun > *frawarðiðe:ðun (Goth. frawardide:dun)
> >>>
> >>> *wurx- ðða: > *wurxte: (Goth. waúrhta) *wurx- ðe:ðun >
> >>> *wurxte:dun (Goth. waúrhte:dun)
> >>>
> >>> Note Sabellic 3sg prúfatted "probavit" with -tt-.
> >> Why not a "Iuppiter rule" treatment of *-a:t- > -att-?
> >
> > Buck has no Iuppiter rule for Oscan afa I could tell and calls its
> > perfect -tt- 'a mystery'.
>
> Well, Helmut Rix blames it on the Iuppiter rule, and believes it
> operated optionally already in Proto-Italic.

What are the other examples of its application in Oscan?


Torsten