Re: [tied] Re: -tlo- vs -tro- (was: rtl)

On 2007-07-08 00:26, stlatos wrote:

> Did I use this as an example of that one rule? Did you read the
> whole reply? I described the changes to this word in another rule.
> This xY>y change was given to explain why there's no xY>y in the root
> when the conditions are right, like OHG siuwan, or *suxW > *suve+.
>
> I suppose you believe that uXe > ue > uwe in all IE;

Yes, naturally, whenever the laryngeal is lost /w/ is the most natural
hiatus-filler in this environment. Why not?

> where does
> *dov- come from? Why Skt rayis not *ra-is > *re:s?

Because it's an i-stem: *reh1-í- > PIIr. *raHí- > *ra.í- > rayí-; cf.
*raHi-wánt- > *raiwánt- > revánt- 'rich'.

> I've given even more examples before; if you have some other
> explanation what is it?
>
> *mexY+ 'measure, be (so) big'
> *memoxYe > *memoye > Skt mima:ya
> *mexYo+ > *meyo+ > Skt -maya- 'made of _'

I'm not sure where all the forms of the Skt. root {mi} come from. It may
well be suppletive, and since <-maya-> shows traces of an _initial_
laryngeal (su:-maya-, cf. Hitt. suhmili- 'well-connected'), it cn't
derive from *meh1-. Secure examples like papráu ~ paprá:, dadHáu <
*pe-plóh1-e, *dHe-dHóh1-e show vowel contraction and no <y>.

> *gWoxWu+ > *gWovu+ > Arm kov (no w>gW>g); most v>w earlier so *gWowu+s
>> *gWo:u+s 'cow'
>
> *gWoxWu+to+ met> *gWouxWto+ > OE cwe:ad; (Skt gu:tha- either from weak
> grade or o>u between gW-xW or with u in addition).

I don't reconstruct the 'cow' word with a laryngeal.

> What about:
>
> *spyuxto+ >> L spu:ta:re
>
> *spyouxmo+ > *spyaxmo+ > Av spa:ma- 'spittle'

Those who accept laryngeal metathesis may reconstruct this root as
*(s)pjeh1w-, the full grade ending up as *(s)pjeh1- preconsonantally,
while the nil-grade is *(s)pjuh1- preconsonantally and unmetathesised
*(s)pih1w- prevocalically (hence Skt. (-)s.t.Hi:vati, Goth. speiwan),
cf. also Slvic *p(l)jujoN, Lith. spiáuju < *(s)pjeh1u-je/o-.

>> Thus, for example, *dHOuh2-m(n)-ó- > *dHu:(h2)mó- >
>> fu:mus, dHu:má-,
>> dymU etc. In this way I can account for the absence
>> of expected
>> laryngeal breaking in Greek (which would have given
>> pre-Gk. **tHwa:mos
>> if the PIE input had been simply *dHuh2-mó-).
>
> In Greek *ux > *wax only happens at morpheme boundaries; the x had
> already disappeared after u elsewhere.

The laryngeal breaking of *i and *u before *h2/3 (in Greek, Tocharian
and Armenian) applies both inside morphemes and at morpheme boundaries.
Cf. gWih3wó- > Gk. zo:ós (but Lat. vi:vus, OCS z^ivU, Skt. ji:vá-),
*duh2-ró- > Gk. de:rós, Arm. erkar (but Lat. du:rus, Skt. du:rá-).

Piotr