Re: [tied] Re: *pYerkW+

On 2007-05-27 02:07, Sean Whalen wrote:

> Why would 'twelve' be the source of kW>b (not
> ainlif)? Also, *LoikWeye+ > OE læ:fan > E leave,
> Goth. bilaibjan 'leave behind', etc.

These are not assigned to *leikW- by everybody. *leip- 'stick, adhere'
is a possibility, especially as we have unambiguous reflexes of
*leikW-e/o- and *loikW-no(s)- with a (labio)velar (Goth. leihWan, OE
læ:n, etc.).

> *gWhono+ > bana > bane; Skt ghaná- 'killer'
>
> *gWhonyo+ > benn 'wound'

This, according to some, is the regular development of word-initial
*gWH- as well as *g(^)Hw- in Proto-Germanic (unless delabialised as in
the zero grade of *gWHn.- > *Gun-). Further possible examples are
*gWHédH-je- > *BiDi/ja- 'ask' (Goth. bidjan, OE biddan ), *gWHréh1-ti- >
OE bræ:þ 'breath, vapour', and *g^Hwe(:)r- > *ber-an- 'bear'. Anyway, I
haven't claimed anything about the development of labiovelars other than
*kW.

> *sk()ex()gWo+ > scéap > sheep; Skt chá:ga- 'goat'
>
> *xukWn.o+ > oven; Goth. *uxWnaz > auhns

There is no secure evidence of *kW in this word (which, by the way, does
exhibit *f in NW Germanic!):

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/46116
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/46132

> Possibly
> *sloxWgW+ 'be burdened/tired/weak' > sleep

How about Slavic *slabU 'weak'?

> Possibly
> *lyekWr,d or *lY- > liver; Skt yakr't

This one's a little bit obscure, isn't it?

> Since 'four' is most likely to get f- from 'five'

... and *fimf- got its second *f from where?

> only 'wolf' (but ylgr) and 'five' (but 'finger') are
> left as good examples; one has w before *kW, the other
> p. That is nothing more than coincidence, in my
> opinion.

As there's no change in <ylgr> and <finger>, perhaps it's simply younger
than Verner's Law.

> *xWexW/gWla+ is attested almost everywhere, Frisian
> has neighbors with late x>f;

In this position? As to <fial> being isolated within Germanic, so is ON
ylgr, and yet nobody doubts its archaic status. It's a pity we have no
Gothic attestation of the 'wheel' word, so "everywhere" refers only to
NWGmc.

> *twai+ can't be given as
> the cause of *kW>b with certainty.

I agree, but *twai-lif/B(?)-, *fiDwo:r- and OFris. fial should be
admitted at least as auxiliary evidence. Of course if the case were
really strong, there would be no differences of opinion concerning *xW ~
*f. I have myself changed my mind about it before, so take my
arguments as those of the devil's advocate, rather than a staunch adherent.

Piotr