Re: [tied] PIE laryngeals

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:

>
> On 2007-03-02 18:58, C. Darwin Goranson wrote:
>
> > Yay necromancy! But that aside, I have been modifying some of my
> > ideas on laryngeal identity, especially after reading some

Winifred

> > Lehmann. I think the result is part Lehmann, part Rasmussen in

its

> > nature, with a little bit of Goranson thrown in. ^.^
> >
> > h1 = either a glottal stop or a glottal fricative. These may have
> > been allophonic.
> > The voiced version of h1 is a schwa.
> >
> > h2 = voiceless velar or uvular fricative. I prefer the latter

myself,

> > but I could understand the possibility of it being velar before

high

> > vowels, i.e. that h2 is allophonically either a voiceless velar

or

> > uvular fricative.
> > The voiced version of h2 is a lowered schwa, represented as an

upside-

> > down a.
> > Adjacent to h2, *e eventually merged with natural PIE *a, but

when

> > this happened (Early-, Mid-, Late-, Post-PIE?) is uncertain. I

think

> > that before the merger, *e around h2 may have become a low front

or

> > central vowel, and since that wasn't too far different from *a,

the

> > two became pronounced the same. This would have DEFINITELY

happened

> > once or before the loss of the laryngeals.
> > Perhaps the intervocalic voicing of the h2 in Hittite is present

in

> > PIE, perhaps not - it's something to seriously look into.
>
> Does anything depend on it?

I don't know.

> > h3 = (rounded) voiced velar fricative. It seems likely to have

been

> > rounded, based on examples of laryngeal hardening in Germanic

such as

> > *kwikwaz from *gwih3os (lively).
>
> Lat. vi:vus, Skt. ji:vá-, OCS z^ivU, Lith. gy'vas, Gk. zo:ós all

require

> *gWih3wó-. In an article to be published later this year I derive

that

> ultimately from reduplicated *gWi-g(W)w-ó- with the dissimilation

of *g

> > *[G] = *h3. Germanic may have preserved the original formation

with a

> velar stop. Jens proposed the reverse change of *h3 > pre-Grimm *g
> *k
> in a 1989 article. In either case the articulation of *h3 and *g

must

> have been similar, but rounding needn't be assumed.

I look forward to reading the article! ^.^

> > The voiced version was a backed rounded version of schwa,

represented

> > as an o with a central bar.
>
> The voiced version of a voiced sound? (see below).
>
> > Adjacent to h3, *e eventually merged with natural PIE *o, but

again,

> > when this happened is uncertain. I think that before the merger,

*e

> > around h3 may have become a mid front rounded vowel; this isn't

too

> > far from *o, and eventually the two merged. The exact phonetic
> > position of this one, admittedly, is probably the weakest of the
> > bunch.
> >
> > Does this sound plausible?
>
> Quite plausible, except that you seem to be using "voiced" with the
> meaning normally given to "syllabic" or "vocalised".
>
> piotr

My bad. You're right - I meant to say syllabic.