Re: The Meanings of Middle, or mana kartam

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Jens Elmegård Rasmussen <elme@...>
wrote:

>
> I think there is a simple answer to this: The semantics of the

middle

> is what is left of the original passive category. As new

expressions

> specifically used of the passive developed the old form was pushed
> back to the fringes, so that the semantic range of the middle voice
> ends up being a patchwork of discontinuous special usages, i.e. all
> the secondary usages of the category. There remain however plenty

of

> evidence that the middle voice also included the passive and even

had

> the passive for its central zone of employment. So, the middle is,
> more than anything, a displaced passive. I think that explains all

the

> problems that have been raised here.
>
> Jens
>

Yet, we can see the opposite evidence from modern languages:
an impersonal reflexive with medial meaning: se habla espa¨nol, qui
si mangea bene; this is often approaching to or turning into true
passive sense: si crede (di un gran numero) "it is believed (by
many)".
Or an example of a true medium: "jeg synes". There is no way I can
imagine this having developed from a passive (I am seen!). More
likely in my opinion Torsten's scenario: "det synes mig" putting the
concerned person in the phrase in the nominative.

Nothing can be seen that PIE or PPIE passive-mediums are of reflexive
origine, though, and being parallel to modern development in many
languages.

Lars