Re: [tied] Centaur

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, João Simões Lopes Filho
<jodan99@...> wrote:

>
> 1) I think it's not a coincidence, but explain it is still very

hard.

>
>
> 2) Gandharva < *gWHondH-.
>
> I thought in sth like *gWHendH- > kent- (Anatolic IE?) and

gWHendH - > zand- > sa(n)t- (Albanese? Illyric?)

>
> a) gWHendH- > kent
>
> Must be an IE language where labiovelars>velars, like Lithuanian

(gW>g). But also with fortition g>k (like Germanic, Armenian,
Anatolic, Tocharian). Could be a Satem, if we assume labiovelar+o >
velar, perhaps *gWndH- > k@... > kent, but could be a kentum, if we
assume gWe->ge-

>
> b) gWendH- > sat-
> Must have fortition dH>t, but must be satem gW>s. It's like

Albanian: gW+e,i > z

>
> So, *gWendHu-ro- > *zenduro- > *zandur- > *sa(n)tur-
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alexander Stolbov
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 12:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Centaur
>
>
> Kentauros is a Greek, i.e. a "kentum" word, isn't it? How shoud

it look in a "satem" language?

> Relying on the correspondence "kentum / satem" proper I'd expect

something like Satyros as the "satem" variant of the same word (i.e.
kentum/satem = kentauros/satyros).

> BTW, both kentauroi and satyroi are almost the only (+ Silenoi)

creatures in the Greek mythology combining both human and horse
properties in their bodies.

> Is it just a coincidence?
>
> Alexander
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Piotr Gasiorowski
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 5:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Centaur
>
>
> Mark Odegard once suggested on Cybalist a parallel between

<kentauros> and <cowpoke>, and indeed it's thinkable that kentauros
< *kento-tauros (with haplology, as e.g. in kentron < *kente:tron
from the verb kenteo: 'prick, stab, goad'). Verb(al)+Object
compounds are by no means un-Greek, cf. pHilo-pato:r or mis-
antHro:pos.

>
> Piotr
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tgpedersen
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 2:22 PM
> Subject: [tied] Centaur
>
>
>
> The Oxford dictionary of Etymology says that 'centaur' is of

unknown

> origin. Emmeline Plunkett "Calendars and Constellations of the
> Ancient World" says it means "Bull-killer", without

explanation. The

> point of the arrow of the zodiacal constelletion of

Sagittarius, who

> is a centaur holding bow and arrow is in direct opposition on

the

> zodiac to a point between the horns of the constellation

Taurus.

>
> The bull was supposed to be pierced (Mitra's dagger, the

toreador's

> blade), not chopped, preferably between the horns. This is

where the

> Minoan acrobats went, and the toreador's sword goes.
>
> Any etymology for 'centaur'? If the meaning is "bull-killer",

the

> compound would be composed in "French" style, V-Obj, as in

porte-

> parole, garde-robe. That's not Greek? I recall there was a

discussion

> of Gr. Minotaurus vs Etruscan tavre-mine, but perhaps this is

a

> dvandva (non-Greek!), man_and_bull, where sequence wouldn't

matter?

>
> Torsten
>

Yes, Piotr once agreed with me, but 'patches' and 'quilt-work' were
also originally invoved, and we agreed I was ignorant of 'patches'.
But (horse-mounted) cowboys pricking cattle into order would seem to
be PIE. There is also the idea that cowboys need to be separated
from cow-herds (bare-foot boys who use a stick to send cows into
their place (Very Marija Gimbutas, [[North Poland and Vorpommern]]