Re: [tied] PIE i- and u-stems again

On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 23:05:26 -0800 (PST), Sean Whalen
<stlatos@...> wrote:

>--- Miguel Carrasquer Vidal <miguelc@...> wrote:
>
>> Apart from a relatively small number of i- and
>> u-stems with
>> a divergent paradigm (genitive sg. in -jés/-jós,
>> -wés/-wós),
>> some of which may be old n-stems (e.g. the u-stem
>> neuters
>> *doru(r), *g^onu(r), *pok^u(r) ~ *pek^u(r),
>> *medhu(r) ,
>> etc.,
>
> If these are given (r) because of the Armenian forms
>I'd disagree. Final *-s just goes through changes due
>to retroflex (after K/r/u/s):
>us
>us.
>uz.
>ur.
>ur
>r
>
> There is simply analogy at some time changing the
>neuter to the same as the non;

No. Analogy means that a feature of A is transferred to B,
where B originally didn't have the feature. Since the
masculine u-stems never have -r in Armenian, this is not
where the neuters got it from.

An analysis of the attested forms in Sanskrit, Greek,
Armenian of these u-stem neuters reveals that they are in
origin neuter n-stems (i.e. r/n-heteroclitics) composed with
a suffix *-un- (final *-un > *-ur, unstressed *-un- = *-un-,
stressed *-ún- > *-éu-). For instance:

NA *g^á:n-un > *g^ónur
G *g^a:n-ún-a:s > *g^en&wós > *g^énwos
or, with early stress-shift:
G > *g^enw&nós > *g^énunos
L *g^a:n-ún-a > *g^enéw-i > *g^énui
I *g^a:n-un-éh1 > *g^enunéh1 > *g^énuneh1
du.
NA *g^á:n-un-ih1 > *g^ónunih1 (cf. Skt. januni:, Toch.B
keni:ne)

> I searched the archives and found this earlier
>discussion. Do you still believe this? Is there any
>need to attribute the Armenian forms to an otherwise
>unseen peculiarity of PIE?

>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer
><mcv@...> wrote:
>>
>> Olsen has shown that *-is and *-us
>> in final position (when there was no early loss of
>> the vowel) give -r (presumably -(i/u)s^ > -z^ > -r).

Of course. This applies only in monosyllables: *tris > erir
"twice", *dWis > erkir "thrice", *dheh1s > *di:z > dir
"put!", *doh3s > *tu:z > tur "give!".


=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
miguelc@...