[tied] Re: From words to dates: Water into wine, mathemagic or phyl

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:

>
>
> --- mkelkar2003 <swatimkelkar@...> wrote:
>
> > Here is our previous exchange on this issue. There
> > is no evidence of
> > pastoral nomadism on the steppes in the time perios
> > you are looking
> > for. I have posted expert opinion on this before.
> > I would be happy
> > to do it again.
> >
> > You might as well forget of horse riding pastoral
> > nomads. The other
> > line of thinking Tortsen is taking has a better
> > chance of succeding.
> > Agriculture could be responsible for the expansion
> > from the steppes
> > not horseback nomadism
> >
> > M. Kelkar
>
> ****GK: You're the one who keeps bringing up "pastoral
> nomadism", not I. There is a difference between that
> and "pastoralism" (which merely implies an economy
> primarily based on the nurture of various animal
> domesticates). "Pastoralism" can be as sedentary as
> agriculturalism, and indeed is frequently associated
> with it.****

If it is sedentary then how did it spread languages? How did they get
to South Asia?

> >
> > "GK: Serednyj Stih (ca. 4200-3500 BC) was
> > > antecedent to Yamna, and was ancestral to the
> > latter
> > > as well as to other "Corded Ware" cultures. It was
> > a
> > > pastoral (though not exclusively so) culture, not
> > a
> > > classical "nomadic" culture
>
> ****GK: Not clear enough? There are no known nomadic
> pastoralists here before the Cimmerians.****

None of these cultures can be identified with a language.
http://www.trypillia.com/articles/eng/re5.shtml

"By 4000 BC, three mixed-farming (dairy) cultures were in competition
in East Central Europe; these were

Tripolye (and Cucuteni), a branch of the Danubian Linear-Ware farmers
who, however, did not practice cereal farming, but rather had an
economy based on orchards, cows, sheep, and pigs.
Sredny Stog (and Kemi-Oba), branches of the Kurgan breeders whose
economy featured horses, cows, goats, barley, and animal byproducts
like leather.
TRB/Funnel Beaker, believed to be a branch of the Erteboelle Hunters,
who began to build primitive villages and adopt some of the economic
ideas of their neighbors, including barley and dairy farming.

There is no universal agreement on which of these three groups
provided the proto-Indo-European language, and you can find sober
scientists guessing that Indo-European was spoken by any combination
of these groups, including none or all three! "


Sober guessing is not good enough.


M. Kelkar

>
> The spread of "Corded
> > > Ware" to northern and central Europe preceded the
> > > emergence of Yamna. "Corded Ware" had infiltrated
> > > Trypilia (from its Serednyj Stih base) and was
> > already
> > > present as far west as the current
> > Polish-Ukrainian
> > > border even before the disappearance of Funnel
> > Beaker.
> > > Globular Amphorae bypassed this initial CW
> > presence as
> > > it marched eastward against the Trypilians. Within
> > a
> > > few hundred years everything in this large area
> > became
> > > "Corded Ware". Yamna (ca. 3500-2800 BC) was a late
> > > eastern variant of "Corded Ware".
>
>
> > "It is known though that the tribes that later
> > formed the Trypillia
> > culture must have migrated from the territories of
> > what today are
> > Rumania and Hungary, and settled in the territory of
> > the present-day
> > Ukraine in about the sixth millennium BC. We have no
> > clear evidence as
> > to what language they spoke (Dovzhenko, 2005 ?)"
>
> ****GK: Probably one akin to that of preceding
> agricultural cultures. They were subsequently absorbed
> by the peoples of the original CW areas.****
>
>
>
>
>

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