[tied] Re: Genetic Studies and Aryan Migrations

From: tgpedersen
Message: 46695
Date: 2006-12-16

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "mkelkar2003" <swatimkelkar@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@> wrote:
> >
> > I haven't read Danino, so my comments rely exclusively
> > on the quote from his "conclusion" as given below.
> > 1) If there are neither "Caucasoid" nor "Central
> > Asian" genes in the Indian pool studied, and if one
> > concludes thence that there is no
> > "genetic" proof of invasion or infiltration from the
> > north, then one ought also, in the absence of further
> > arguments, hold that there is no "genetic" proof of
> > the reverse movement. Which leaves us with two
> > "unpenetrated" solitudes. And yet the linguistic facts
> > suggest a very close relationship between Indic and
> > Iranic and between Indic and other Indo-European
> > languages.
> > 2) So if the above holds, then we must conclude that
> > genetics is completely irrelevant to the issue of AIT
> > vs. OIT.
> > But is the above (and the quote below) really true?
>
> Genetics is quite releavant to tracing human migrations. See the
> excellent graphic presentation below.
>
> http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/
>
> http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/
>
> Now that the genetic data has failed to support a speculative invasion
> or even a tricke in of "Indo-European" speakers around 1500 BCE there
> is a tendecny to dimsiss this data. One must realize that the
> alternative to the AIT the so called "OIT" is not simply a converse of
> the "AIT;" i.e. we are not looking for a reverse migration around
> 1500 BCE. Doing so would give a totally undeserved credence to the
> AIT itself! The alternative theory may not subscribe to the same
> timeline or even the same standard linguistic family tree worked out
> by the IEL. As I have said repeatedly on this list the methodology
> and the conclusions reached by the IEL as reflected by the
> "conventional wisdom" is open to serious questions.
>
>
> Unproven hypothesis like AIT/AMT should not be taken as a fact, as
> they are meaningless from a historic point of view. And most
> importantly **the reverse of an unproven hypothesis or the so called
> "OIT" is equally meaningless** from a historic point of view.
> Therefore this is not about AIT/OIT.
>
> All the most modern tools of research from many relevant fields must
> be brought to bear on the question of how and when the human
> linguistic capacity arose and why some langauges appear to be similar
> to others. Many linguists have made important contributions to this
> quest. But sadly, a majority of them seem to be working outside the
> accepted norms of Indo-European linguistics.


As I understand it your premise is that there is no discernible
genetic difference between India cum Pakistan and the surrounding
area. The general consensus in linguistics is that the differences
between the languages of the northern area of India cum Pakistan
are minor. On the basis of that you claim that there has never
been a movement of people into said area from the outside (AIT)
nor in the reverse direction (OIT). That is a strong claim, and
it is incumbent on you, who made it, to argue for it.


Torsten