Re: Prenasalization, not ejectives cause of Winter's law?

From: tgpedersen
Message: 46369
Date: 2006-10-15

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> Rick Derksen
> (Old Icelandic jarpi "hazel grouse", rjúpa "ptarmigan"
> and their Germanic and Balto-Slavic cognates, in
> Language Contact; Substratum, Superstratum, Adstratum
> in Germanic Languages)
> quotes Henning Andersen for the following summary
>
> Proto-Slavic
> xxxxxxxxxx simple complex
> full grade e:rb erimb
> zero grade i:rb rimb
>
> Proto-Baltic
> xxxxxxxxxx simple complex
> full grade e:rb erumb
> zero grade i:rb rumb
>
> of his proposal to account for substrate NWEuropean substrate
> words meaning "hazel grouse", "ptarmigan", "rowan tree" and
> "speckled".
> Derksen emendates it to
>
> Proto-Slavic
> xxxxxxxxxx simple complex
> full grade erHb e:re/imb
> zero grade irHb re/imb
>
> Proto-Baltic
> xxxxxxxxxx simple complex
> full grade erHb e:ru:b, erumb
> zero grade irHb rub
>
> and remarks that it is tempting to ascribe the laryngeal to
> Winter's law, but that the complex Baltic form (Latv. rubenis
> "black grouse") precludes that. Apart from that, if this is
> a freak form, Derksen's summary shows an alternation between
> a voiced unaspirated produced lengthening and a nasal, in other
> words *-V:rb-/*-VrVmb-. Now suppose that voiced unaspirated are
> not preglottalized as claimed but instead prenasalised, as
> Pulleyblank has proposed, that alternation would be instead
> *-VrHb-/*-VrMb-. That means that positing voiced unaspirated
> as prenasalized can account for Winter's law as well as
> positing them as preglottalized.
>

BTW, on the subject of cranes:
As Patrick pointed out
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/46135
that "wild" root should perhaps include a laryngeal:
*h3erMb-
which in some languages might be related to a velar continuant
*G-, so
*GerMb-
which I say since I tried find some names of cranes, and found, in
http://www.naturephoto-cz.com/crane:grus-grus-photo-402.html
the words
http://www.naturephoto-cz.com/crane:grus-grus-photo-402.html

UK: common crane
DE: kranich
FR: grue cendrée
ES: grulla común
CZ: jer^áb popelavý
DA: trane
NL: kraanvogel
PL: z.uraw
IT: gru
FI: kurki
HU: daru
SE: trana
NO: trane
TR: turna
SK: z^eriav popolavy´
LV: dzërve
EE: sookurg

add Latin grus
(more words here:
http://birds.krasu.ru/lange/index.php?sn=103
)

It seems that if Cz. jer^ab is part of the *erMb- family,
Sk. z^eriaw, Pl. z.uraw must be too. And if it matches a
semitic root G-r-b, one can't deny Lat. grus membership too.

BTW, 'grouse' itself is 'of uncertain origin'

Torsten