Re: [tied] sabrina river

http://www.marikavel.com/lieux/rivieres/severn/severn-sabrina-accueil.htm

Ravenna's Sarva or Sarna is properly placed in the river-list, arnong names which we recognise as belonging to south-west Britain. The Severn is otherwise omitted from Ravenna, and it is logical to expect mention of it at this point; the equivalence of this entry with Sabrina was suggcsted by Mùller and Holder, and such miscopying can be paralleled elsewhere in the text. It is fair to note, however, that R&C thought Sarna another south-western river, citing Italian Sarnus and Sarnis in support of its independant existence. Sobrica has not hitherto been associated with the Severn. In Ravenna it figures in a list of islands, but sevcral of these are already suspect, and this name is probably also Sabrina read from a map m which it had been written in the western sea. R&C took it as a good name whose second element was -brica for -briga, though doubting whether initial So- could be correct. Duplication in Ravenna, from different map-sources, causes no surprise.

DERIVATION. No clear Celtic etymon is identifiable. The name is doubtless connected with other river-names such as Saba, Sabis > Sambre (Belgium), *Savara > Sèvre (Niortaise, Nantaise) and > Sèvres (Seine-et-Oise, France), Sabatus (a river of Bruttium) ; also *Sabrona > Old Irish Sabrann, the river of Cork (see O'Rahilly, EIHM 4). There has recently appeared at La Graufesenque a graffito Ad Sabros, perhaps the name of the river there now known as the Dourbie (REA, LXXVI (1974), 269). Rostaing ETP 243 thinks the root *sab- a pre-Indo-European water-name, but it is clear that it was taken into Celtic (British), for in addition to the présent name, Savernake (Wilts.) has the same origin, and there are a few others listed by Pokorny in ZCP, XXI (1940), 121; furthermore, *-ina is a recognised Celtic suffix (see LINDINIS). According to Ross (1967) 21, Sabrina is a divine name which underlies the river-name. Pokorny in ZCP, XXI (1940), 79, proposes that the root *sab-, common in water-names, means 'Saft' and has Illyrian connections, and suggests more specifically (p. 121) an adjectival *sabro- as a basis for some of the names. This seems an entirely reasonable approach.

ehlsmith <ehlsmith@...> escreveu:

--- In cybalist@... s.com, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@.. .> wrote:
>
> I think it would be very, very odd to call a river "Liquid River"...
It doesn't make sense.

It would be odd only if the original meaning of the name were still
understandable. But there are many cases of hydronyms and toponyms
being redundancies because of etymological origins becoming obscure
over the centuries and the roots becoming proper nouns only. I forget
the specific example, but I've heard there is a hill somewhere in
Britain whose name is a composite of 5 roots meaning "hill"

Ned Smith

> "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@... > escreveu:
At 2:38:01 PM on Monday, October 9, 2006, Piotr Gasiorowski
> wrote:
>
> > On 2006-10-08 18:08, Cuadrado wrote:
>
> >> Hello does any opportunity to connect the river Name
> >> Sabrina (Severn) with tribe celtic name : Abr-incate from
> >> Cotentin (France) Sabr- = Abr- is aquatic name ?
> >>
>
> > I don't think they can be connected. The river-name
> > contains the Celtic element *sab- (*sab-ro-). The initial
> > *s- has become /h/ in Brittonic, but was still a sibilant
> > at the time the Anglo-Saxons arrived in Britain (Mod.Wel.
> > Hafren but OE Sæfern);
>
> Watts, The Cambridge Dictionary of English Place-Names, puts
> Brit. *s- > /h/ in the mid-6th c. and the arrival of the
> English in 577. He thinks it unlikely that they'd have
> heard anything but /h/ pronunciations and suggests that it
> was important enough that they'd probably heard of it rather
> earlier.
>
> > the old pronunciation has also been preserved in the
> > Latinised form. There are quite a few Gaulish river-names
> > and toponyms in <Sab-> on the continent, and there's OIr.
> > Sabrann (the old name of the River Lee/An Laoi in County
> > Cork), but the meaning and further etymology of this
> > element are uncertain (Pokorny's guess that *sab- is a
> > variant of *sap- 'taste, peerceive' is not very
> > convincing). In Gaulish, the /s/ would not have been lost.
>
> Watts suggests a pre-IE *sab- 'liquid', taken into Celtic
> with an r-extension and the regular Celtic suffix *-ina:.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
>
>
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