Re: [tied] Thematic root aorist

On 2006-07-17 01:26, Andrew Jarrette wrote:

> Do you think you could provide a few examples of athematic aorist
> subjunctives with zero grade in attested languages? (I don't see
> where they fit in in Sanskrit grammar, for example.)

The historically attested subjunctives of athematic stems, whether
present (like *gWHén-e/o- and even *k^l.néw-e/o- ) or aorist (like
*gWém-e/o-) have the e-grade. This is not what we would expect, given
the behaviour of Narten presents ans sigmatic aor. subjunctives (with a
short vowel, i.e. with the "weak" allomorph), but I don't know how to
explain this anomaly. The *gWHén-e-ti type could be analogical after the
Narten pattern, but why? Some kind of vr.ddhi, already in PIE? -- see
Hill (2003):
________

That's what I thought.  But Edgard Bikelis was talking about the Sanskrit <avidat>-type aorist, which you suggested might be derived from athematic aorist subjunctives with zero grade.  If athematic subjunctives, including aorist, had full grade, what then could be the origin of the zero grade in this Sanskrit aorist formation, especially if it is in fact derived from athematic aorist subjunctives?

> I take it *weid-t is posited to explain Latin <vi:dit>, but again do
> you have any examples of the reflexes of the middle *wid-é in
> attested languages? (Again I don't see how these fit in in

Sanskrit

> grammar, for example.)

Vedic preserves some archaic "statives" with -e (*-ai < *-e-i or *-o-i)
rather than -te (*-tai < *to-i), e.g. <stave> 'is praised'. With their
defective paradigm they are likely to represent an otherwise
restructured category, and are often explained as remnants of the
original middle, with endings practically identical with those of the
PIE perfect.

________

And I suppose you would include here <çaye> "lies".   But this has full grade, not zero grade like *wid-é.  Perhaps <stave> has the reduced form of the full lengthened grade of a Narten Root, so perhaps for non-Narten roots the equivalent formation would have zero grade, but I haven't found any examples of zero grade in such middle formations, at least in the aorist in Sanskrit (though the present has zero grade in athematic verbs, albeit with the Sanskrit ending <-te>, not *<-a> from *-é.  But we are talking here about the origin of thematic aorist forms in Sanskrit, not present forms).  So what is this *wid-é you hypothesize?

Andrew