Re: [tied] Latin tardus

--- Andrew Jarrette <anjarrette@... ca> wrote:

> Sean Whalen <stlatos@... com> wrote:
>
> --- Andrew Jarrette <anjarrette@... ca> wrote:
>
> > If /a/ in <tardus> is not derived
> > from an original *e, then what is the origin of
> /a/
> > in this Latin word?
>
> There are cases of *wr. > ar before w or u at a
> certain stage:
>
> arduus "steep"
> u:rdhva- "upright" Skt
>
> arvum "arable land"
> urvara:- "field" Skt
> ____________ _________ ___
> Although the evidence is undeniable, what a weird
> change this is. You'd think the *w preceding the
> *r. would cause rounding and raising, not spreading
> and lowering.

It only dissimilates before w or u; otherwise
*(ur>wr.>)vor (at least before a C in the next
syllable).

> Also odd to me that Latin has <ar>
> in <arduus> and not *<ra:duus>, as I would expect to
> correspond to Sanskrit < u:rdhvam>.

Not every case of lengthening is caused by a
"laryngeal". In this case the solution I have is that
retroflex syllabic consonants become long when before
retroflex consonants in the next syllable in Indic
(not Iranian). This would take place after certain
retroflex-spreading s occurred but before others; and
since I think that retroflex stops become
non-retroflex in most positions in Sanskrit later,
it's not very easy to prove.

________________

I think your idea will be very difficult to prove.  Does anyone else share your opinion on retroflex stops in Sanskrit?

> If tardus is from PIE, a very speculative derivation
> could be
>
> turdu-
> twr.du-
> tardu-
> ____________ _________ __
> Then what root is this from? *twer-? *twerd-?
> What meaning would this root have? Could it be
> related to the *twer- root that has meanings such as
> "enclose" and "shut off" in Slavic, Baltic, and
> possibly Latin (<paries>)? Just wondering.

So far I've been very speculative; but to go even
further I'd say that:

*twer,- (make) go forward > hurry

*t,wer,- (make) go back > hesitate

with alveolar t vs retroflex t,
________________________

I'd say extremely, unbelievably speculative!  Never heard of retroflex stops in IE, even if they are meant to be onomatopoeic, indicating retardation by their retraction.

 

Andrew

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
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