Re: [tied] Latin tardus

--- Andrew Jarrette <anjarrette@... ca> wrote:

> If /a/ in <tardus> is not derived
> from an original *e, then what is the origin of /a/
> in this Latin word?

There are cases of *wr. > ar before w or u at a
certain stage:

arduus "steep"
u:rdhva- "upright" Skt

arvum "arable land"
urvara:- "field" Skt

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Although the evidence is undeniable, what a weird change this is.  You'd think the *w preceding the *r. would cause rounding and raising, not spreading and lowering.  Another case of unexpected dissimilation.  Also odd to me that Latin has <ar> in <arduus> and not *<ra:duus>, as I would expect to correspond to Sanskrit < u:rdhvam>.  This reminds me of some linguist's idea that IE *lH, *rH yielded <al>, <ar> instead of <la:>, <ra:> in Latin before labials, e.g. in <salvus>, <palma>,  and I think also <palpare>, <calvus>.

If tardus is from PIE, a very speculative derivation
could be

turdu-
twr.du-
tardu-
_______________________

Then what root is this from? *twer-? *twerd-?  What meaning would this root have?  Could it be related to the *twer- root that has meanings such as "enclose" and "shut off" in Slavic, Baltic, and possibly Latin (<paries>)?  Just wondering.



>
> (And could this
> account for cases of /a/ in Celtic as well (ref. my
> earlier question on the origin of Celtic /a/)?)

There are many changes that create a; which ones are
you thinking of?

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You caught me unprepared.  Unfortunately I do not have the Welsh grammar nor the Old Irish material which caused me to ask questions about the origin of /a/ in Celtic, and I can only half-remember a Welsh <haddl> or similar meaning "seat" or "saddle" or some sitting-related meaning, which the author of the Welsh grammar derived from a *sEdlo- with subscript <e>, i.e. a reduced vowel or schwa secundum.  Otherwise, I only have a general memory of words in Old Irish with <a> which corresponded to words in other languages with <e> or <o>.  I don't have the proof however.  I will try to find some and post them later.

Andrew

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